Leadership Tea
The Leadership Tea podcast is where powerful leaders share their journeys, insights, and triumphs through informal conversations about what it takes to reach the executive level. Join us every other Wednesday to be inspired by the unvarnished stories of amazing executives who know what it's like to be "the only" at the table and who have succeeded regardless. They have proven leadership experience in their respective fields, from international affairs to the private sector to academia, and want to help others create their own success stories.
Leadership Tea
Leading in the Grey, Part 1
COVID-19 has challenged even the most seasoned leaders, forcing us to navigate uncharted waters without a playbook. Join us as we share their journeys of "leading in the grey" amid the chaos of the pandemic. Discover how the pandemic amplified leadership responsibilities and drove us to rethink our strategies, providing invaluable lessons on adapting and supporting our teams in an uncertain world.
In this episode, we also tackle the complex dynamics of remote work, exploring the critical role of trust in team performance. Learn how pre-pandemic behaviors can predict remote work success and why commuting, work-life balance, and flexibility matter more than ever. We discuss the essential value of in-person interactions for creativity and learning while addressing the challenges of managing a diverse workforce in the new era. Reflecting on the societal issues laid bare by the pandemic, we emphasize the need for open communication and adaptability, offering strategies to create compelling work environments in these unprecedented times. Don't miss this thought-provoking discussion on reimagining leadership and fostering trust in a transformed workplace.
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Hey everyone, it's Shelby and Belinda. We wanted to have a conversation about leading in the gray, and we were inspired to discuss this topic because, as we continue to emerge from the height of the pandemic, there are a lot of lessons that we've learned that have influenced how we lead teams, how we engage with other people, how we interact with not only people at work but others in our social circles, at home, with our families. There was just so much that we all went through as human beings from the pandemic that I think we are continuing to just things, that we're continuing to grapple with, things that have fundamentally changed who we are as human beings not just me and Belinda, but everyone. Right. The entire world went through a traumatic experience and in many ways, we are still. We're still I don't even know if the right word is to say that we're emerging from it, but we're still. I think grappling is the right word.
Speaker 1:We're still grappling with what we all experienced, and it's we shut down quickly, no matter where. You were told okay, shut everything down, go home. We don't know what this thing is, but everyone needs to go home. And so we all shut down immediately. But then, as things started to open up. We didn't give people the tools that they needed to turn back on, or we didn't give them. I think, personally speaking, we didn't give people enough space and grace to figure out this new normal or whatever we're calling it. So I just wanted to start with that context.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I agree with your word of grappling that we're still just trying to figure it out. When I think about this topic title of leading in the gray for me it means that we've come into uncharted territory even now, in this moment. And when I think of that, how do I know that I'm in the gray? It is when we've reached a space where there's no playbook, where there's no precedent and also there is disagreement, and where all of those meet is, I think, where we certainly found ourselves in 2020 and 2021, but even emerging from that space, we are still frequently encountering that gray. And I reflect back on 2020. At the time, I was overseas. I was in Rwanda and leading a large team there at the US Embassy, leading a large team there at the US Embassy, and I've had the opportunity to experience this new leadership environment both in the public sector and in the private sector, and I think that many of the lessons that I've learned apply to both experiences. Right of both experiences, right In 2020, suddenly everything shut down Suddenly.
Speaker 2:Many people were from where I was gone, they had gone back to. Even my peers at other missions were gone back to their countries, or people needed to leave for family reasons and we needed to think about. Suddenly I was thinking about people's safety in a different way than I had to before. This was different than dealing with an immediate crisis where, you know, let's say, there's like a natural disaster. In theory, the natural disaster is a moment, and then there's a clear rebuilding or a clear putting things back together. Perhaps the world had seen in our lifetime something similar with, like avian flu or Ebola, but those they were somewhat global, but they were really localized. This everyone was experiencing turmoil all at once in ways that they couldn't have predicted, and so it was hard to chart a path forward when everyone was in that. There's no playbook Also, I have strong feelings and I'm in disagreement and also there's no playbook Also, I have strong feelings and I'm in disagreement and also there's no precedent space. So I think that's what made things particularly challenging With that, and, thinking about the entire period right from March 2020 to now, I would say that it made me, it really pushed me to be more deliberate as a leader and less reactionary, and it really pushed me to think about I didn't always implement this well over the last four years, but to really think about how I'm taking care of myself, because there are moments there where I had my own things going on in my own life or I felt extremely.
Speaker 2:It's already difficult being a leader and you already feel isolated and lonely and you can like just go hang out at the club with your team. This period amplified all of that, and so I just. Those were my big picture lessons. What about you, shelby?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember I was assigned here at the State Department, at the Operations Center, and something you said struck me this idea of safety. I remember feeling responsible. Everything was on me to make sure that my team was okay and I've never felt that obligation. Before it was different. I'd led teams, I'd supervised people and I'd always taken that role seriously in terms of thinking about their development and their training and just making sure that I wasn't a jerk as a boss. But at the height of the pandemic there was this overwhelming sense of I am responsible for every human being that is on this team. It is on me to make sure that they are safe and that they have what they need.
Speaker 1:Even though we are operating in a completely different environment of gray, like our work was already, one of the aspects of working at the operations center is that you're already dealing in various shades of gray. You're responding to crises and figuring out what do I do with this information, who needs to know this piece of information? And you're making snap decisions and you're relying on your judgment. But the pandemic amplified all of that in a way that was profound, in the sense that every day that I woke up at the height of the pandemic, I knew that I was responsible for these other individuals and it was a combination of I don't want to say it was a weight, because I just felt obligated to take care of them. Because I just felt obligated to take care of them, but it was definitely. It was a different type of obligation or this intrinsic feeling it's hard to describe Whereas these people are depending on me.
Speaker 2:Like it's on me and as things as people do, like they started to rebel against that, and so I would say there's this period between May 2020 for me and maybe like September, October 2020, where the world didn't still understand what was happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah what was happening when you have to think about hundreds of people who have varying levels of risk, tolerance and also medical needs that you aren't fully privy to. For me, I preferred to err on the side of caution because I also understood it was somewhat temporary in the grand scheme of our lives. Yeah, it was a temporary in terms of a year, two years, three years, but the grand scheme of our lives this was likely temporary. But, as you were talking, what I thought about, you know, when we reached the disagreement stage which I think for me that period was definitely a disagreement stage People who had already been challenging my leadership in normal times, this became amplified when we hit this period. So it's like you're managing all of these things. But also the unruly folks became particularly unruly. Unruly and as you were talking, and this kind of leads maybe into a couple of my lessons learned.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I remember during that period, particularly like May sitting sitting, and it means I had done things like, say, the. The advice had been public spaces should be at that moment, right, this is like may 2020. The advice was people should not congregate in large groups and if you think about it, all over the world, things like public pools or playgrounds or schools were all limiting access, closing access. At that point it's May 2020. And I remember being in this meeting and someone saying you need to reopen the playground. My kids like the playground and they need to go to the playground. Well, my kid likes playgrounds too. Right, we can't. But somebody else's kid likes the pool, so should I open that? One so across the table likes the gym. Should I open that? One so likes going into the office? But this is May 2020. Everybody's at home. Should I open that? And we were supposed to have you know this event or this ribbon cutting or this, but they're not happening. One so likes those should force people to do it, and so it.
Speaker 2:This idea of managing for the, the mission at hand versus my personal preferences, became something that I thought. If I don't start doing this, we will have chaos, and that shows up in the workplace in many ways right. You're often in meetings and people will say I believe I prefer X Y Z, or I like people to do X Y Z, and so our organization is going to make a shift based on my preference, because I am leader, and so it does not create the most efficient or committed workforce, and I think you do that. I think it's better when, especially when there's differing opinions or the way forward is not clear, to become rooted in fact, and rooted in clear strategic framework. Yeah, to help bring people together around solutions. I don't know I could be wrong, but here's the guidance we have. Here's what we're supposed to be doing. Here's like some data related to what's driving this decision. One plus one equals three. Here we go. Yeah, here's like some data related to what's driving this decision. One plus one equals three. I, here we go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. I think that's spot on. It became clear. I think it became clear that, especially if you were in a leadership role, you were forced to make decisions that focused on community, like what is best for us as a community versus Bob wants to do this, sally wants to do this, john wants to do this which you have to deal with on a day-to-day basis in any circumstance. But the pandemic, I think, as you were saying, it really forced you.
Speaker 1:I think those of us who were in leadership positions, who were trying to maintain some sort of synergy and just trying to get our work done, you really had to think about the broader mission and kind of step outside of yourself. And I don't know every day I wrote on. I had on a sticky note as you were talking. It made me think about it. It's not about me but we. It's not about me but we like, how are we going to get through this? Focusing on the mission, like you said, and I think, as you were talking, one of the lessons that I learned that I was reflecting on as you were elaborating on the challenges of managing people and their preferences and what they thought there were so many debates that continue to this day about telework and where people are working. Should they be on site? Should they be virtual? Are there functions that can be performed better offsite than onsite? Blah, blah, blah. We don't have to go into all of that.
Speaker 1:But I think at the heart of the telework debate and I think something that was amplified for me during the pandemic is this idea of trust. Do you trust your team to get the job done? Was this individual on your team kind of slacking off before the pandemic? Were you questioning their performance, their conduct? If they were sluggish before the pandemic, were you questioning their performance, their conduct? If they were sluggish before the pandemic, then it's likely that they might continue to be sluggish at the height of the pandemic.
Speaker 1:But if you've got someone on your team who is killing it on a day-to-day basis and they're giving it their all they're putting in $150,000 all day, all the time. They're giving it their all. They're putting in $150,000 all day, all the time what evidence do you have to suggest that that person is not going to continue giving you 150% just because they're now no longer sitting right in front of you doing the job? And I just think that so many of our workplace conflicts, and not necessarily related to the pandemic or this debate around telework, but just in general. So many of our conflicts in the workplace are centered on this idea of trust. Do you trust the people on your team? Have they given you a reason not to trust them? And if so, then have you done the necessary to address whatever it is that they're not doing to perform?
Speaker 2:That piece. When we talk about return to office and employees are resisting, it is one. Why can't we have a nuanced understanding of what return to office means as an organization? Yeah, I agree Everything you said, I just agree with 100%. But also I feel like we didn't as ask employees why are you resisting?
Speaker 2:And often, when I would settle myself and again get to the heart of the problem and talk to people, it often went back to the idea of trust. People were saying, before we left the office, I was on the edge, trying to balance, let's say, commuting yeah, Trying to do what you wanted me to do from nine to five, randomly, often past five, and then commute an hour and a half, two hours to hopefully get, let's say, childcare, hopefully pick up my kids on time and run around and do all this. And I didn't realize that I was driving myself to the edge and I don't trust you as an organization to treat me like an adult or give me flexibility to say I don't know, I've got to. Just, I don't want to live like that again.
Speaker 2:And I don't trust that you aren't going to bring me back to that place where it's difficult for me to function and I just feel like what we were doing prior to 2020, that actually was not working for most of us, but we just didn't know an alternative. And when people saw an alternative where they could get their work done but move outside of fight or flight, they realized that they could still be really great employees but not have to live like that. Why return to that? At the same time, I also understand and I see that, being a part of a team, getting to know people, talking to them in person, it does matter. It does bring out creativity and there's a whole group of people entering the workforce that need that those, the lessons and the experiences that come with interacting in person. But somewhere in between, there we can be smart people with big brains who take on this big problem right and figure out appropriate solutions, and they won't be one size fits all.
Speaker 1:That part, that part. I think the pandemic taught me that, first of all, leading is hard work. Leading and managing people, it's not easy. It's not easy not if you're being deliberate, not if you're really trying to get the best out of everyone. It's this constant tension that you were getting at. Okay, I know that each person is bringing their own individual issues to the office. How do I balance that? Meet them where they are and then, at the same time, make sure that the whole is complete, Because there were so many things that the pandemic revealed.
Speaker 1:Childcare for one, whether you're a man or a woman, it doesn't matter If you're a father, a mother. We're all living in environments, mother, we're all living in environments, especially here, I think, in the DMV, where there's so much going on. Our kids are in a thousand activities, we are involved in our careers and community activities, whatever it is. There's just, there's so much going on and every day you're like, okay, how are we going to get it all done? How is this person, how's my kid going to get from point A to point B when I know that I'm working in this other place and they need to be in Maryland, I'm in DC or I'm in Virginia, how are we going to make this all work? And I think the pandemic just uncovered a lot of issues that we were just dealing with, but we were stressed out, A lot of us were just stressed out about the same things and we were just forced to deal with them at the height of the pandemic.
Speaker 2:I think it really uncovered a lot of gaps in our societal contract.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Globally, yeah, yeah. Our societal contract, yeah, globally, yeah, yeah, and. And so it feels like a lot of this would be easier. I don't know if I'm fixing, but at least speaking to it and being honest about at least what the problems are. Yeah, I agree with you, it doesn't. It could be, it could be something as simple as like right now, right here in the DMV, most people are hybrid, okay, and many of them are going in the same days each week Tuesday, wednesday, thursday. So it's like Tuesday, wednesday, thursday.
Speaker 1:I know I leave home like I don't know 20 minutes earlier than I normally do, because traffic is insane.
Speaker 2:So I guess that's the kind of thing I think about every Tuesday, wednesday and Thursday. I'm like, okay, we can be hybrid, but did we all need to come in every Tuesday, wednesday and Thursday because now we're just recreating the chaos that we're in. So people aren't getting that flexibility because Tuesday, wednesday and Thursday feels not great, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:so people aren't getting that flexibility because tuesday, wednesday and thursday feels not great right, and I, yeah, as an individual, I am more stressed on those days than I am on monday because I know fight or flight, like I'm gonna be fighting with folks on 395 before I even stepped foot into the office, I just went through something just to get here totally.
Speaker 2:Hey, look, shelby, I think this is a a good start to this conversation. I didn't realize when we I have a long list of lessons learned and I didn't. I had all these things to unpack. I I have a feeling this would make a good episode where we should have an another part. Yeah, I agree, and we can share more of these, these lessons that we've learned.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just to sum it up for today, think about how are you managing for the mission?
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And do you trust the people on your team?
Speaker 2:Now you're getting to the heart of issues. There it is Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:With that. We look forward to sipping wisdom and stirring success with you all again soon. Stay tuned for part two of this very important dialogue. Thank you.
