Leadership Tea
The Leadership Tea podcast is where powerful leaders share their journeys, insights, and triumphs through informal conversations about what it takes to reach the executive level. Join us every other Wednesday to be inspired by the unvarnished stories of amazing executives who know what it's like to be "the only" at the table and who have succeeded regardless. They have proven leadership experience in their respective fields, from international affairs to the private sector to academia, and want to help others create their own success stories.
Leadership Tea
Pouring Gratitude: Leadership Through a Dad's Eyes
Listen in as we celebrate Father's Day with a heartfelt discussion with our dads. From transitioning careers to overcoming humble beginnings, we recount the stories of these incredible men and their profound impact on our perspectives of fatherhood, leadership, and the importance of being present.
Our dads share their journeys, highlighting the twists and turns that required adaptability, specialization, and effective communication. We discuss how unexpected challenges have reshaped their approaches to budgeting and strategy, emphasizing the power of flexibility. Plus, we explore the balance between being a generalist and a specialist and how mastering bureaucratic processes and writing skills can give you an edge in professional settings.
Finally, we delve into the essence of leadership as a practical skill. Is it something you're born with, or can it be cultivated over time? Through our fathers' career transitions and management experiences, we underscore the importance of patience, understanding human behavior, and staying true to oneself. Please tune in for invaluable career advice and express gratitude for our fathers' foundational roles in shaping our lives and leadership styles. Happy Father's Day to all the dads, mentors, and father figures out there!
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Hey everyone, it's Shelby and Belinda, and we'd like to welcome you to this special edition of the Leadership Tea podcast, where we are celebrating Father's Day. We realize that this episode might be triggering for some of you, especially if you have a strained relationship with your father, especially if you have a strained relationship with your father or you come from a broken home. Belinda and I realize that we are very blessed and very fortunate to come from loving two-parent households where we have strong relationships with both our mothers and our fathers, and we're really excited to bring you this episode because it gives us an opportunity to highlight some of the lessons that we've learned from each of our fathers. But again, we just want to acknowledge that this day may be difficult for some of you.
Speaker 2:I think I would echo that, shelby just that we want to make sure that this is a space that is welcoming for everyone. But we do think that there are some interesting lessons to be gleaned from this episode and we wanted to share that with as many people as possible. I think that both of our fathers have really interesting backgrounds.
Speaker 2:My father started his career in the private sector, in the railroad industry, and then moved into the federal government on the regulatory side of that industry, where he spent most of his the rest of his career working on transportation issues as a regulator, and he is originally from a small town in South Texas where he grew up in an environment that was a college town, so there were lots of opportunities to meet people from all around the world and to learn new things. It was also a town that is near a military a naval facility, I understand and also near one of the largest ranches in the world, the King Ranch, which he got that mix of being in an environment where people were military, they were academics, they were in the private sector, there was oil happening, there was cattle happening. It was a lot, and I think you hear that wealth of experience and exposure in today's episode you hear that wealth of experience and exposure in today's episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your dad has a fascinating background. My father was born and raised in Richmond, virginia. He was born at a time when things were tight. He was poor, growing up, lived with his siblings. His mom was a single parent and they struggled. He had very humble beginnings. He tells us stories all the time about how he carried newspapers to help with the income at home and how he had odd jobs when he was in high school to help pay the bills.
Speaker 1:He was in the military. Briefly, he served in the US Air Force he was a firefighter, actually and he lived in Michigan for a period of time when he was in the military and then he eventually became a manager in a private sector company back in Richmond and, like your dad, belinda, he popped back and forth between the private sector and the public sector. He was an entrepreneur briefly selling insurance for a little while before getting a job with the government and eventually retired from FEMA. He's also a Mason and has been active in his church in Richmond and has just been a consistent example for me of what hard work just having strong values and a strong sense of self, as well as the determination and grit to set your own course, no matter what the challenges are. He's always been that example for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's always really interesting that I don't know, in all of our years of knowing each other and of friendship, it just I never cease to be surprised at all the parallels in our lives.
Speaker 2:And even over these two episodes that we've recorded with our parents. Their backgrounds and histories, even though they grew up in different parts of the country, are all so similar, right, and the barriers that they had to overcome were very similar, and the fact that they overcame them is extraordinary. I think it's a really exciting episode. I think that for our listeners who are celebrating Father's Day or who are close to people who are, in whatever capacity, that means right, you're an uncle, you're a mentor, you're a friend. We just want to acknowledge that and say happy Father's Day.
Speaker 2:And we wish you all the best and we hope that you enjoy this episode.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Shout out to all the dads, all the fathers, all the men out there who are pulling their weight and holding it down and including to our dear husbands, who are examples of what great fatherhood looks like. Happy Father's Day to our spouses.
Speaker 2:Definitely, so let's get into it.
Speaker 1:Great. So Belinda and I are really excited to have our fathers on this episode. As our listeners know, we spoke to our moms for Mother's Day and we're grateful to have close relationships with our fathers and wanted to get a chance to talk to the both of you, dad Smith and Dad Nat, about Ariances as fathers and how they relate to leadership, and how your roles in our lives have influenced and impacted who we are today, both leading at home as well as leading in the workplace. But we'd like to kick off this conversation by asking a simple question what do you like best about being a dad? And, dad Smith, we will start with you having a family.
Speaker 3:I was raised, I sing a part and I never had the opportunity to have a full family mother and children and I realized that now I have a family and I was able to do these things that I was unable to do as a child.
Speaker 1:Dad, Nat, what about you? What do you like best about being a dad?
Speaker 4:I don't know if there is a bet. Yes there is. I would say interesting is more than anything, and that would be raising two human beings. And all that until I agree with Jerry being a single parent being raised by a single parent, I want to make sure that my kids, that I was involved with my kids and was there to raise them, be there for them. Raising the two human beings from beginning to end, and all that involves all the phases and being involved in their lives and not knowing from day to day who they're going to be, whether the big blend is going to show up or little blend, and even that's in this day. So it's been fun doing that and I guess I feel like I've panned it forward. I was pretty fortunate and I'm hoping that I'm sharing with them what I've been able to gain and get. The only thing is I just wish they would understand that their life would be so much better if they would just do what I tell them to do.
Speaker 2:We'll see. We feel that that actually is a nice segue into our next question, which is what are you most proud of in your life and all the different things that you've done? We'll start with Dad Jackson.
Speaker 4:What am I most proud of? I think I beat the odds. There were so many things that were against me basically, but having beat the odds and not ended up in a prison or on the streets or dead at this point in time and that was because of the people in there I ran into some, I was fortunate to run into some good people and if it weren't for social programs I wouldn't have made it. I wouldn't have made it through this society and this world. But mainly, just being in the right place at the right time, I was fortunate.
Speaker 4:I was in the room for a lot of things that happened in transportation and in the world. I was there with the development of a lot of technology, a lot of rules and regulations. I helped implement them and develop them, such as. I was there with rail technology. They first got computers. I was there to help enforce the rail industry, to help make sure that they enforce integration laws. I helped develop and implement NAFTA, the NAFTA program. So when I see the Canadian and Mexican trucks on the road it's like, hey, I was a part of that. I helped the states develop their E-ZPass and prepaid systems. I was a part of that stuff.
Speaker 4:I see that every day, so I've been pretty fortunate to be involved or be in the room. Those are some of the things that I'm proud of, but basically, belinda and Nicholas, they've tried to be two good kids. I always tell people 50% is not bad. I never say what's 50%, but they've been good kids and I think what I'm seeing now as they mature is their management and supervision skills becoming a part of their everyday lives. They're both, as I see it, good managers, good fathers and good mothers and good people, and I think I'm proud of them. I was a part part of sharing some of that and moving it forward. I'm pretty much here.
Speaker 2:No, thank you and Dad Smith.
Speaker 3:Watch the church grow and mature and being instrumental in their progress and success. That enabled them to be the better people the better persons rather than I was, and I watched that and I nurtured them and, at the same time, it enabled me to be a better person but you both talk about being better people like how fatherhood has enabled you to be better and beating the odds and just helping your children to develop into the people that we are today.
Speaker 1:So, with that in mind, when you reflect on the people who guided you as you were both growing up, what are some of the life-changing lessons that you picked up along the way? We can imagine that growing up at the time that both of you did was not easy. What are some of the lessons that stick out for you and Dad Jackson? Let's start with you.
Speaker 4:Well, I don't tell you she gets started hearing this. Grant and Nicholas both, I think. I learned early on from people in all aspects of my life from elementary school teachers to preachers, pastors, parents and relatives is the golden rule Treat people the way you want to be treated. Pure and simple. That's the way I've tried to live my life. Treat people the way you want to be treated. I've tried to pass that along to them. Them and that's been the simple thing. That's it. I learned that early on. People taught me that and that's what I tried to follow. And also being aware that the people you meet growing up the ladder are going to be coming down the ladder. That's as simple as that. Just treat people the way you want to be treated. And the golden rule. The other thing is just do it. I would have, could have, should have Belinda knows that runs me crazy Just do it. Don't put it off. You can do it. Take that first step and that's it.
Speaker 1:Just do it. I hear you.
Speaker 3:What about you, dad? Patience. Patience is the virtue that I sell it to be, and what I found out is that it's okay to be different. Everybody's going to accept you as you are. And there's a cause to be right and understood, because there's success out there waiting for all of us. And, just like I was saying to them, dreams don't work unless you do and have a motive and an agenda to make things happen in your life and to stick with. Do the best you can while you can, and success will follow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, both of those points really have an impact, and this idea of taking this information, these lessons of treating people the way that they you want to be treated, and just taking action and being patient are, I think, really critical, even in the workplace. But I'm also wondering for both of you is there advice that you wish someone had given you earlier in your life? So we've got the first side what people gave you that helped to guide you. But what do you wish people had told you that you learned later on? We'll start this time with Dad Jerry.
Speaker 3:Dad, nothing comes easy and when changes come, they only come just to make you strong. So therefore, with that being said, I learned the hard way in life. For example, I have an accountant behind me and I learned that when I was working with this company, I was responsible for the profit and loss statement I would refer to them as P&L statements. Back then, when I was working with this company, I was just brought in for the profit and all statement I'll refer to them as P&L statements back then. And what I did?
Speaker 3:I had distracted and make my staff make budgets work, because I had no idea that in the middle of the year, budgets could go right they wouldn't have paying out the way way that you planned them to do. So I had to go back and re-strategize and change numbers and feed it to make it work, and by doing so I became very successful. And it taught me a valuable lesson that it's not going to stay the same in life. Everything we're doing. You just have to adapt and be flexible and proactive and make things happen in your life to make it pleasing and better for you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that, dad Nat.
Speaker 4:One of the things that I wish I'd learned early on was from a gentleman named Charles Worth. I don't know if you remember I worked with him in St Louis. He was 72 years old and still working. I was 25 but he said become a specialist in whatever area interests you and that makes you more valuable than anything. So I would become a world specialist. I wish I'd learned that early on in what I did and whatever trade I was in Although I did my best, I wasn't as good at what I did. But being a specialist in what you do, I saw guys that were specialists in bolts If you can imagine being a world specialist in bolts and people from all over the world came to them to ask for their advice and so things like that I wish I'd learned early on so that I could put the energy into what was most important to me.
Speaker 4:The other thing I learned from one of my most the best managers I ever worked for was you have the power of the pen. You, if you know the rules, the policy, the regulations, you have the power of the pen. So you don't have to be concerned about what's right or wrong. You have the authority and you have the confidence to do your job if you have the pen. So you don't have to be concerned about what's right or wrong. You have the authority and you have the confidence to do your job if you have the foundation. So those are the things. Those are the things I think I learned, later than sooner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting to say that because since leaving government I've been, I was really surprised In government and particularly where I was in government, I was rewarded for being a generalist Like you, moved up the ladder faster, for proving that you could adapt quickly to any situation, something I had to adjust to because the world wants people to have a narrow specialty.
Speaker 2:And trying to define that for myself when I have spent 20 years proving how great of a generalist I was has been really hard. And it's interesting what you say about the power of process and the pen. Right now I'm teaching a class to people and discussing that very thing where, if you can control bureaucratic processes, if you can write well, if you do analysis well and are good at communication, you can control and have a lot of influence. And then I was talking to a friend who's an English professor about that yesterday and I think it's different than the way academia teaches writing right now. Right, they do teach analysis, but this idea of writing as influence is interesting, is different. So it's something that people learn and are shocked in once they get into the work space. So, yeah, I get that Shelby over to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, flapping on something Dad Jackson said putting your energy towards what's most important, right? I feel like we learn that later in life, where, when we start off in our careers, where we're so busy trying to impress people and show everything that we know, this is what I've learned in school, or these are my special talents and abilities, and this is everything that I bring to the table, and it relates to this you know, overgeneralization point that you were making as well, melinda where we spread ourselves so thin that we forget what is our bottom line, what is most important to us, and how do we adapt when things don't go as planned, as my dad said, because things go sideways. And I think one of the things that I try to instill in some of the women that I'm mentoring is you have to not be so rigid that you're not able to just flex and adapt when the curveballs come, because they will. So I just thought those were all really good points.
Speaker 2:Adaptation is critical. Agreed.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and especially when things do go wrong. And this relates to the next question that we wanted to ask you both when you reflect on those moments of difficulty or challenges that you faced in life in general, or on the job, family situations, whatever it is In reflecting on a significant challenge, what has been the most significant challenge and what did you do to overcome it? And we'll start with you, dad, this time.
Speaker 3:Changing jobs from Richmond to Washington was faced with so many different issues and challenges, because I was an elite presidential and it caused me to dance in half full, because it's lonely at the top. When you're moving like that, there's a call to be liked and understood. You have to win I wouldn't say people over, I would say peers and coworkers over to understand exactly where you're coming from. And the most important thing I learned, because you're coming with different ideas and opportunities for them to grow on, it's okay to be different, because if you are under that, it's usually parade to try to show others the same old things that they may already be used to. So you have to own yourself a different attitude about how you're going to proceed and stick to that. And, above all, because I'm a God person, I have to make sure that God be your ruling hand. Call on him, because other folks have their own personal agenda that they want to hold on you with.
Speaker 2:So trust in God and again, when you go back, the patience ought to come from God yeah yeah, I would just jump in here with this idea of it's okay to be different, and I agree with that 100%. I experienced that in a position I had where I was surrounded by engineers. Engineers are great, engineers are great, engineering's great. I wish we, I wish to do that, but I'm not and I don't think like an engineer, and that's okay. But I had to constantly remind myself that I brought value and my way of thinking differently and approaching problems differently actually helped the organization and was needed, and I every day had to get up and tell myself it's okay that I'm different. In fact, I was hired to bring that difference, but it can be tough when you're living in it. All right, I interjected.
Speaker 1:No it was relevant, that was relevant.
Speaker 4:I guess managing and supervising people is the most challenging thing you can do as a manager. That's, how do you get your job done through other people Period. And that involves patience, as Jerry says, a lot of patience and communication. And I've heard one of you all, several of you all episodes where you always talk about it's not just managing down, it's managing sideways, horizontally and upward. You have to understand human behavior. So how do you deal with your manager and your peers and your subordinates and getting things done. But that also involves compassion and empathy, being able to understand when that subordinate needs some time off, being aware of their mental health and their stability, where they're at, making sure they have the resources they need. That's all a part of getting the job done and those are challenging things.
Speaker 4:I remember my first managerial job. The agency supervisor called from Washington and asked man, how do I like supervising? And I told him it'd be great if I didn't have to deal with people and he said go ahead and I go back to. You're most comfortable and confident when you know your authority period. That's the bottom line with me is knowing what you can and cannot do period.
Speaker 2:Then shifting to our next question what's one piece of career advice you would share with your grandchildren? We can start with Dad Jackson.
Speaker 4:As I said, my basics for life is the golden rule Treat people the way you want to be treated. That's what I try to tell them all the time. But mainly, just do it. I would have, could have, should have. It doesn't get you anywhere, and I think I try to teach you is learn as much as you can. Don't be afraid to go out and explore, be curious, ask questions. But mainly I hear people saying I'm not going to apply for that because they're not going to do it. Joe Burrow's got that job. Don't rule yourself out. Then you have to apply. If you don't thrive, you've already ruled yourself out. So at least try and submit that application or go after that job and see what you can do.
Speaker 2:That's basically what I try to tell them at this point in time. Yeah, what is it they say? You miss 100% of the shots.
Speaker 4:You don't take Right, exactly, exactly. How can you win the lottery?
Speaker 2:if you don't play, yeah, win. If you don't play, you can't win. If you don't play, that's for Dad Smith.
Speaker 3:Over to you. The first line of defense would be being truthful with each other, but more important would be, like that, with God, because God, all things are possible and the first line of defense is God. However, they get to have truth right close by, because when you're not truthful with yourself, you cannot go on your job. You cannot go on your job even with your family and be honest with them, and to the point that what you say is what you get. Most people, even children, can see through you. That's why I stress the importance of being truthful. Don't let it be to the point that you're saying it and not believing it. You got to be true. You got to be true. When you're true, you feel better about what you're doing, and it should never, ever misrepresent being truth. That is so important. It allows you to go to sleep at night and wake up in the morning with a right frame of mind to do the work that you are going to do and even live the life that you would live in a manner that fits for the family.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I completely agree with that. I know I've walked into a lot of work situations where I've thought to myself, where I've had to deliver bad news or explain some mistake that's been made. That's pretty bad, and I've just thought to myself as I say it, as I get ready to go in the truth will set you free. It's just better to like lay this out on the table, be honest, take these hits right now, then try to hide something or keep up some lie or some whatever, and I also just have too much going on to keep lies straight, like the truth is always the best.
Speaker 2:And then I was also thinking, as you were speaking, that I took a class in college like it was like a physical education class, and something that stuck with me is they talked about it was like about managing a healthy lifestyle once you entered the workforce. Was the point of this class? I probably should have taken better notes, but one of the things they talked about was that you, your health, is this three-legged stool of your physical health, your mental health and also your spiritual health, and you it's you need all three of those in order to remain balanced, and I've certainly found in my career, when one of those three is not aligned, things get a little shaky and wobbly. So I definitely agree with you on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, something that each of you said really struck me, this idea of being truthful, as you were saying, dad. It all relates to a common thread in some of our other episodes where we talk about accountability, like being accountable to others but first being accountable to yourself, like knowing your own shortcomings and addressing them and not being afraid to call yourself out when you need to. That's a good sign of a good leader, because if you're not accountable to yourself, you can't expect others to show accountability for their actions. And then, something that Dad Jackson said about treating people the way that you want to be treated and the golden rule. That's something that will stick with me.
Speaker 1:Something Belinda and I have talked about a lot is being kind. I want people to be kind to me and even when you're delivering bad news, right, like when you're having those difficult conversations, like Belinda said, you can have those conversations and not be a jerk. Like Alinda said, you can have those conversations and not be a jerk when being truthful and honest with folks on your team. So with that, we'd like to shift to the lightning round, a more lighthearted part of our conversation, and we'll start by asking each of you what's your favorite sports team? Dad, you can pause, because I know what your answer is, but start with Dad Jackson.
Speaker 4:What's your favorite sports team? Well, I would play the Dallas Cowboys. Don't shoot me for that.
Speaker 3:Oh God, oh Lord.
Speaker 1:I'm only reacting that way because, anyway, go ahead, deb. What's your favorite sports team?
Speaker 3:Brothers of Jackson, you're a great man. Let me state that Dallas Cowboys.
Speaker 2:That's interesting, america's team.
Speaker 1:But it's not Shelby's team. We have this issue in our household where I'm like what, how is it? We're from Virginia and you both. My mom is also a hardcore Dallas Cowboys fan, and I don't know my entire life. That is the one thing that I've been confused about.
Speaker 4:I'm on the right team. What is her team?
Speaker 1:What's my mom's team?
Speaker 4:Your team, yours.
Speaker 1:Oh, my team, my team is actually the commanders and the reason why I remember growing up and watching football and I remember at that time they were called the Redskins watching their quarterback who at the time was oh my goodness, I'm having a senior moment he was the coach for Bramley State, doug Williams yes, doug Williams. And at a very early age I was like, wow, this is a Black player leading a team, and, of course, the two more than Belinda and I. That was rare.
Speaker 3:It has been rare throughout the history of the NFL.
Speaker 1:And so I said, wow, this Black guy is like leading them. And they won the Super Bowl. And that just stuck with me and Washington became my team. They're not my team right now, but they were my team for most of my child.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's funny, I thought you were going to say Baltimore.
Speaker 1:It's Baltimore now, because the kids are big Ravens fans.
Speaker 4:And I'm going to gather to say that Belinda's going to say the White Sox. It used to be the White Sox, right.
Speaker 2:No, it was the Cubs Cool the White Sox. It used to be the White Sox, right? No, no, it was the Cubs Cool the White Sox. It was just easier to go to the games. But I actually still like National League a little more than American League play, even though I worked for the Rangers. But no, the Cubs. And a big regret I have is not flying back from. I think we were in peru when they were in the world series. I'm back for that, but that's a different discussion. Yeah, all right, I actually I'm gonna throw in another lightning round question here, but a different, a different. Take Cake versus pie, and I'm going to add, or versus cobbler Dad Jack, I was going to say pie, Cobbler is what I really like.
Speaker 4:When I say pie, I like the really good sweet potato pie. That would be my first thing. And then I can't get anyone to make a cobbler when they come to visit. So that's just the wish list we'll make it happen.
Speaker 2:We'll make it happen. You know, who likes to make them right now is olivia. I know, I've heard that, I've heard, yeah, and she's really good at it.
Speaker 4:I've heard that.
Speaker 2:We'll make it work. Consult Dad Smith.
Speaker 3:First, I have a problem, Jax. I love baking sweet potato pies. However, I prefer chocolate cake.
Speaker 4:Oh man, yeah, I can go with that, yeah.
Speaker 3:In fact my only granddaughter. When I come up or she come down to visit me, she gets me a quarter with all of her chocolate. She will lay on me and I shouldn't have it, but I love it.
Speaker 4:Do you have a chocolate icing, chocolate frosting, go with it and all that, or just the?
Speaker 3:cake Yellow batter.
Speaker 4:Wow, wow, that's the old fashioned one there. That's real.
Speaker 1:That's real, all right. So our last question is something that we tend to ask all of our guests. Fill in the blank Leadership is A practical skill.
Speaker 3:Some of us are fortunate to be born with it in that animal's being, and some of us can learn. It takes a long time to learn. If you haven't embedded in you from the very beginning in a toy, then good. But when we have it from within you, you're going to be more successful in what you do, because it will enable you to influence and guide people in the way that they should go, based upon your leadership.
Speaker 4:Dad Jackson leadership is leadership is everybody wants to be captain, until they have to be captain, and then who's there? You got to step up and do it yeah, that makes sense to us.
Speaker 2:Look, I want to thank both of you for joining us today, and I think our audience is going to get a lot out of this particular episode and there's a lot of like good points in here and universal truths. Thank you for all that you've done to get us where we are today and for being willing to share that with our audience.
Speaker 4:Thank you for having us. We appreciate it. I can't hold yours, just to be a part, thank you for having us.
Speaker 3:We appreciate it. I can't hold yours just to be a part.
Speaker 1:Yeah we thank you. Thank you for your authenticity and, most of all, thank you for your role in our lives as our fathers. We're blessed to have had strong mother figures in our lives, but also to have strong fathers. So we thank you, we appreciate you and wish all the dads out there a happy Father's Day. Bye.
