Leadership Tea
The Leadership Tea podcast is where powerful leaders share their journeys, insights, and triumphs through informal conversations about what it takes to reach the executive level. Join us every other Wednesday to be inspired by the unvarnished stories of amazing executives who know what it's like to be "the only" at the table and who have succeeded regardless. They have proven leadership experience in their respective fields, from international affairs to the private sector to academia, and want to help others create their own success stories.
Leadership Tea
Red, White, and Brew: Revolutionary Approaches to Partnerships and Careers
Ever wondered how power couples juggle careers while keeping their families grounded? Join us for a compelling conversation where we share our secrets to balancing demanding jobs and family obligations. In this bonus episode, we bring our spouses into the mix, offering a unique glimpse into our lives and revealing how communication, adaptability, and mutual support help us manage it all. Our discussion likens marriage to a relay race, where the baton is passed to whoever is best positioned to move forward, highlighting the role of our partners when the woman's career takes the lead.
What does it mean to be a "girl dad" in today's world? We share heartfelt stories that reveal the importance of support, bravery, and open communication. Drawing inspiration from influential figures —parents, spouses, and mentors—we showcase how these relationships shape our approach to leadership. Listen to personal anecdotes that illustrate the impact of parenthood on how we move through life, making us better partners and professionals.
Self-care isn't just a luxury; it's the bedrock of success. We emphasize the interconnection of home and work life, discussing how adaptability, flexibility, and setting positive examples for our children contribute to professional achievements.
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Learn more about us and the podcast at www.stirringsuccess.com
welcome back everybody to the leadership tea and thank you for joining us. Today's episode is a special bonus and it's one we're really excited about, because it's our own stories and trying to explain how the realities of us being part of DC Power Couples, I think, kind of works right. We get a lot of questions about how our spouses manage our very demanding careers and also balance family and a host of other factors in their own careers, and so we wanted to bring them on today to share in their own words what it's like to be on this journey and some of the lessons learned that they would want to share. Shelby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, this is something that we've been talking about doing for a while and I would challenge this notion of balance, this concept of work, to make it from one day to the next. And I was telling someone the other day, I think I was being interviewed by a young professional who is competing for an executive level program and she asked me you know how do you do it all? And the fact of the matter is, you know, some days I'm killing it at home. You know, I'm rocking it as a wife, as a mom, like everything is on point. I haven't forgotten any deadlines. You know, everyone has gotten to where they need to be on time. I've cooked a hot meal. You know, people are happy, life is good and maybe, you know, in those moments I didn't do so well at work that particular day, but that's okay.
Speaker 2:But then this mom guilt creeps in because it's like oh, did I forget to email my son's teacher about an assignment that he needs to redo because he didn't do as well as he wanted to the first time around and he needs some reinforcement? Or did I forget to go to the grocery store to pick up a treat for Viola's swim team, because it's the home team's turn to do some sort of fundraiser or something, and so I bring up all those examples just to illustrate that it's just a constant juggling act, and we're fortunate that we have partners who are all in with us and they're there to pick up the slack. Sometimes it's 60-40. When it's really rough, sometimes it's 60-40. When it's really rough, sometimes it's 80-20. But we're blessed to have partners who are committed and who have chosen to make sacrifices to enable us to lead the lifestyles that we have and to pursue the unconventional career paths that we've chosen.
Speaker 1:Definitely. I think I would agree to all of that. I rarely have it all balanced, all figured out and we are rarely in a 50, 50 state Right, and I would offer that. People are going to hear in this episode that there are certain themes of communication is critical and adaptability is critical and modeling what you want to see and what you want to be right is really important. These are things that I think have been kind of that secret sauce. They're part of that right key ingredients within that that have allowed us to have these partnerships that are truly partnerships and that thrive.
Speaker 2:For sure, and I'd say you know, another key theme has been communication. Like in every conversation that we've had, communication over communication and communicating some more, it just can't be stated enough that without communication, I mean it really is the glue, you know, that holds everything together. Whether you're trying to build a team from scratch, whether you are the CEO of a major enterprise, no matter what it is that you're doing, in every relationship communication is clutch, especially at home, especially when you're juggling so many competing demands like things fall apart. Things can fall apart quickly if you're not communicating and if you're not being honest with your partner definitely there can't be elephants in the room, no right.
Speaker 1:And this is a space where, if home's not right, work's not right. Like you can't focus right, so you have got to stick with the same fundamentals you would use at work are likely the fundamentals that you need at home. So I don't want to keep people any longer from the episode. I think we can just jump right into it okay.
Speaker 2:So we're really excited to have our spouses join us for this episode.
Speaker 2:You know, Belinda and I get asked all the time how do we manage careers, how do we manage being wives and how do we manage motherhood?
Speaker 2:And it's really important to us that we give our listeners an opportunity to hear from the people who help us make the magic behind the scenes, to hear directly from our partners, because it's not easy, and the two of you play a significant role in our lives. We simply wouldn't be able to do what we do day in and day out without you. So we're going to just get right into it and talk about the fact that it's 2024, and yet the world is still dominated by patriarchy. A lot of our cultures whether you're talking about culture in the United States or in Europe, Africa, Latin America there's still this traditional sense in many societies that the man's career takes the lead, and so we want to kick off this conversation by asking both of you how have you managed being married to women like Belinda and I, whose careers have taken the lead in our relationship? Let's kick off the conversation by starting with Michael, All right?
Speaker 4:I would start off by saying for me, when I look back at our marriage, at the point in time that we decided to say yes, in my mind, I stopped being an individual and I joined a team. So for me it's I compare it to a baton race. Right, we're coming up into the Olympics and relay races are a thing. I compare it to the person who carries the baton is the one who can move the fastest, the one who can carry it the furthest. So you know, there've been points in time in our marriage where I've deferred to Belinda because her career was taking off and it was, as it often is, a rare opportunity, and so you know, to take advantage of the windows of opportunity that you have when they avail themselves, I think is something beautiful and I'm glad that I've been able to support throughout our marriage. So you know, in a nutshell, it's a relay race, it's not a individual sport, right?
Speaker 2:I love that visual of the relay race. We have also been watching the Olympics, particularly the track and field events, and I think that's a really fitting description, babe.
Speaker 3:Well, I have to say that I can't express just how proud I am of who you are and the career that you pioneered. I try to make sure that when I'm assessing roles I'm not taking a chauvinistic approach. I believe in you and your capabilities. I have a great appreciation for everything that you've achieved, both academically and professionally. It's been a pleasure watching you work and I just want to be supportive of that as much as I possibly can.
Speaker 3:I mean I do have my own aspirations and desires. However, I just want to be as much as I possibly can. I mean I do have my own aspirations and desires. However, I just want to be as supportive as possible and I've tried not to get too caught up in roles or positions or who's supposed to be doing what. I think it really just kind of boils down to me when you look at us standing side by side in a marriage. There are some points where you will need to step forward and your partner step back, and vice versa. So that's the approach I've tried to take is just one of being a supportive spouse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think, when I listened to both of you, part of me thinks about a couple of themes that we have talked about in several episodes that are skills that I think help people succeed, whether it's with their teams, with their partners, just throughout life.
Speaker 1:That is something we keep hearing over and over again this year is about vulnerability, right about bravery, and that that is something that we all, in each of our relationships, have learned to master. Because, as going back to Michael's example of the, the relay race like today you're running first leg, maybe next time you're running anchor we all have to be adaptable, we have to shift, we have to move, we have to oh, I guess the last piece I left off of that is communication. Right, people don't know like there's been a lot of talks, a lot of discussions, often early, to balance all of these pressures we feel from the outside. So that's definitely what I hear when both of you speak, and so, just kind of building on that, given that we have kind of each developed within our relationships these models that we didn't always have examples of, I think we're curious to know when you think about people who've inspired you and if, who comes to mind and why, like how did, how did you become who you are, vince? Why don't we start with you?
Speaker 3:Well, I'll just say first you know it's got to be my mother and father whom I find myself thinking about a lot more often, definitely thought of them often when they were here and definitely think a lot more often of them now that they are not All of the things that they, all of the sacrifices and things that they've endured and lessons that they've instilled. In addition to my parents, actually, I have a deep admiration for my wife. She is extremely disciplined. Watching her shake and move is definitely inspiring. I definitely draw a lot from Shelby. I just restate the word discipline very disciplined, very routine, very matter of fact. It's really a great thing to have a spouse who lifts you up, who inspires you, who encourages you, who makes you a better version of yourself. That's going to be my response to your question.
Speaker 4:It would definitely be my mom, my mother and father and my wife.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 4:Well, I will start off by saying I think I would lose points if I didn't, if I didn't say my mother, father and my wife.
Speaker 4:You know all people who I, you know, at points in my life, have looked up to and drawn inspiration from. I've looked at their examples and said to myself I don't know how they did that in that moment, but I have found many times that I've been in awe and amazement just at how they did it, how they overcome the challenges that they had to face. Of straight answer, my straight answer would be I've been fortunate to have a number of supervisors who, in my life, who've been good mentors, people who have been shining examples of what one does when you're under pressure, and there are people who I wish to emulate, people who I draw from their example and say to myself okay, when something like that comes along, I will refer back to that time when they stayed cool under pressure, or where they said actually, I don't have the answer, let me get back to you. And so just those moments to be able to draw from are things that keep me centered in my professional life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I loved both of your responses.
Speaker 2:Obviously, honey, I was a little taken aback by your response and happy to know that I provide inspiration to you, as you do for me, as you do for me, and I also was struck by something you said, michael, in terms of watching people and how they deal with pressure, being calm under pressure and Vince.
Speaker 2:What you mentioned about having discipline, you know those attributes are characteristics that we've spoken to in other episodes. When it comes to leadership and facilitating resilience in the teams that we've led, and as you think about leading at home the two of you leading at home, being parents, in addition to being very supportive spouses, you know, putting on your parent hat that takes a different type of courage, it takes a different type of discipline, especially when you think about all of the pressures that our kids are facing these days, whether it's social media, whether it's bullying, just all of the different things that they're confronting, that we didn't necessarily have to face when we were growing up and we want to hear from you, you know, with all of that in mind. Both of you are our girl dads and we think that there are life lessons that you have accumulated as being parents, that you have accumulated as being parents and you know, just wondering what type of life lessons has being a girl dad taught you I can take that question.
Speaker 4:So for me it's when I think of the concept of girl dad, right, you're stretched beyond what you came into the role expecting it to be right. And so how did you adapt to this new person who is part of your life? Right, and her needs, right. And so, yes, there were things that I didn't expect to do. I didn't expect to be as involved in Girl Scouts as I am. I didn't expect to pick up on a hobby that she was interested in. I had no clue what Pokemon cards really were and that it was a game, but apparently it is a game. And so to learn to like the things that she loves right, that she loves right.
Speaker 4:But I think the hardest lesson for me has been realizing that I need to give room for failure. So this is not necessarily gender specific. I think you could say the same thing raising a boy versus a girl but for me it's been about trying to figure out at what point in time it's sufficient space for them to be able to come into their own and not have the protective parent natural response jump in. That's really sort of been my challenge in being a parent and wanting to be both supportive and nurturing and only making sure that she's exposed to what she's ready to handle and that she has the tools and her toolkit to deal with it.
Speaker 4:I've seen, especially of late, she's not in elementary school anymore and so now it's about becoming a big kid, right, and becoming a young adult. And what does that mean? And how do I learn to navigate this world as a young adult? And much of that is about having some slack in the line so that you can carve your own path, so that you can see yourself in your own space right and define, have the world not just be defined for you, but to kind of create the world that you're in. So for me it's about giving space and letting go, but at the right pace that is comfortable for her, so that she can shine and she can gain confidence and she can take the next step. All right.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, we're raising a rising senior now.
Speaker 3:So you know, being a girl dad is, it's definitely gotten more and more as we get closer and closer to our daughter, basically leaving our household and stepping out on her own. It makes me both extremely happy and somewhat sad. But I will say that you know I'm extremely proud of her. She is very much like her and like her mom, she's picked up a lot of solid traits. She's extremely disciplined, extremely astute.
Speaker 3:She told me recently as a matter of fact, she told me on Father's Day in the card that she gave me that you know, dad, I know I mess with you a lot about a lot of the lessons that you seem to continually try to instill in me, but I want you to know that I internalize those lessons and use those lessons much more than you know. Let me not get choked up here. Raising a young woman is definitely like making and molding a beautiful piece of pottery, if you will. Just someone who sits down and takes his or her time to just mold and make and design and to instill. Our daughter has definitely had to say we're at the point now with her where it's not even as much as me instilling in her, as her actually instilling into me, which lets me know that I and we must be doing something right.
Speaker 1:I'll leave that there. Yeah, I mean, what both of you said is powerful. Vince, like you said, you're experiencing what Michael and I are kind of preparing for. We know we are pouring into our families, right. We know we're doing our best to teach them the lessons that they need and give them the space that they need to grow.
Speaker 1:I think I hear Vince, when you were talking, is okay, but I'm worried about the world. I'm not worried about her, I'm worried about the world. I think the same thing when I think about Olivia. I'm not worried about and she's good, like she's ready, but are we doing enough to prepare her for a world that may not be ready for her right? So and I think we are we're doing our best, right? So, with that said, you guys aren't the only ones who feel that way, and I wonder if you'd be interested in sharing your advice about balancing being a parent and being married and maintaining a professional identity. That's something I think our audience would be very interested in hearing more about. We this time, let's see. Why don't we start with Vince?
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's definitely a lot of moving parts there. You know a lot of moving parts and definitely a lot of different hats that must be worn. Sometimes it can be quite the challenge a lot of different hats that must be worn. Sometimes it can be quite the challenge. Needless to say, we have to make sure that we're ready and prepared for it. So you know, just constantly. You know because our kids are student athletes, so we're constantly on the go doing this, that and the other, but at the same time, I like to think that they're watching us as well, that we're still able to maintain ourselves professionally and that they can see that that's what we're doing at the same time.
Speaker 3:So I think that you know, shelby and I definitely let our kids know that, hey, we're about business and you need to be as well. Business and you need to be as well. It's really just a matter of continually setting the example by not just our words but our actions, and letting them know that, hey, you have to do this, you have to do that. Here's actually something ironic. I sometimes find myself telling my children things, then actually stepping back off of that and realizing, you know what, I could probably take a dose of that for myself, of that, and realizing you know what I could probably take a dose of that for myself. But yeah, I mean, we think we've. I think we've managed to maintain a pretty good balance of professionalism and parenting because you know we work off of each other. You know it's always a constant communication as far as who's doing what and when and how are we going to schedule this and balance that.
Speaker 3:Something that's definitely helped me out quite a bit is the refrigerator calendar, shell, that refrigerator calendar boy man. It definitely helps with knowing who's doing what and who's going where and when it needs to happen and that sort of thing. So I mean, yeah, it's a constant juggling act. However, it's a, you know it's. How do I put it? Let's see, I guess the word is like a labor of love. I suppose I should be speaking for myself Definitely know that this is just a moment in time and you know we all, you know, the same way that we, you know, went through and you know we'll, you know the same way that we, you know, went through, you know bringing them up when they were younger. You know this moment in time, we're, you know, handling it accordingly and just feeling blessed in every aspect of it.
Speaker 4:Thank you, michael question of advice for someone who is trying to balance being a parent, being married and having a career. Yes, and I'm sure it's a piece of advice that many people have heard before, but everything has a season. There's a time where I feel like I'm more focused on career than I would like to be at home or on being a partner, and then there are other times where I feel like the pendulum swings a different way. But I kind of get back to one of the things that you had said earlier, belinda, in response to one of the earlier questions, which is you talked about having a mindset of adaptability, being sort of flexible, and really, to me, it's about like, who are you and what is your center? Like, your center is how you approach all of these roles. Right, it's about thinking about, like, what is most important. Yes, there'll be times when I'm a little bit more focused on one thing than another, but at the end of the day, I know that I, as an individual, need to take care of myself. That would be the piece of advice I would say.
Speaker 4:Self-care is fundamental. If you think, fundamental meaning like a foundation, everything stands on it. So having time for yourself is just as important. It is really the strength that you draw from to be a great husband. To be a great, you know, supervisor, co-worker is to be a great, you know, parent, someone who shows up. So those were some of the things that I would draw on to be able to respond. And, you know, just kind of thinking about our lives. I feel those moments. I can look back and say I was glad that at this point in time I was more focused on family, I, you know. I can look back and say I'm grateful for, you know, the space that you provided so that now I'm able to do a little bit more career-wise and try to see where my work can take me. So it's really on that vulnerability, flexibility, adaptability that you had talked about in the beginning. I think that also is fundamental. So self-care and adaptability, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:Self-care and adaptability. Yeah, I love that. Self-care, adaptability, knowing your center, everything has a season. Making sure you're communicating modeling to your kids and setting the example that you want them to follow. Y'all are dropping some gems Like.
Speaker 2:This is all interrelated with, you know, themes that we have been speaking to throughout. You know this season of the Leadership Tea podcast. You've really just kind of crystallized you know what you do at home, or what we've done at home is reflected you know in how we show up at work and vice versa. So it's really beautiful to hear the two of you reflect.
Speaker 2:I think you know that maybe we are doing something right, that you know the values and the principles that you all have been discussing in this episode resonate and reinforce. You know the principles that we have tried to emulate and demonstrate. You know, whether it's in the boardroom at State Department, at a US Embassy, all of the different rooms that we have been in, it's clear that you know our home lives have had a positive influence and impact on who we are, you know, in the professional space. So, with all of that said, we are going to shift to a more lighthearted part of the conversation, called our lightning round, and we have a special lightning round for the two of you, so I'm going to start with an easy one Chips or fries, michael.
Speaker 4:Ooh, my vote is chips, but not potato chips. I'm talking about, like, fish and chips.
Speaker 2:Oh, that doesn't count, that's like no.
Speaker 4:No, no, I'm thinking like I thought you were going to say plantain chips. Potato wedges.
Speaker 2:Ooh, yes, I thought you were going to say plantain chips.
Speaker 4:Yes, I thought you were gonna say plantain chips.
Speaker 1:Well, fry planting, yes, plantain chips the lightning round all right chips chips of the commonwealth and all their shapes. Yes, exactly got it all right.
Speaker 2:All right, babe. What about you chips or fries?
Speaker 3:yeah, I'm gonna say chips as well. I think, uh, I've definitely picked up a liking for uh, pick up, picked up a recent liking for that's uh salt and pepper chips. So, um, yeah, I mean you know, always been down with uh, always been down with blaze, always been down with ruffles. But uh, but yeah, those, uh, like I said, those, those uh, salt and pepper chips, they, they're special also.
Speaker 2:All right, Since we're celebrating the independence of this country later this week. What's been the best Fourth of July party that you've attended overseas?
Speaker 4:What's been the best Fourth of July party. It was a large event and I remember we were busy working and doing different things and there was a pause, for some reason. There was a moment where there was like a lull in all the different activities and things that were going on, and like it was an evening. I remember the sun was setting.
Speaker 4:We were in West Africa at that point and I remember, at that point I could just like stop and think back, right, so I could think back about, like, the sacrifices that my family made for me to come to the United States and to become an American, right, I'm thinking back to when I, you know, took my swearing in as a citizen. I, you know, reflected back on all the fireworks that I had seen up until that point, and then you know thinking about, wow, this is, this is what it means to be an American, and like it was, you know, a beautiful moment, just to be able to kind of like look back and kind of see, okay, wow, this is where I am right now. I never imagined being in this place, but just wholly happy to be able to be there with my wife and you know, for us was it was really the beginning of an adventure. So, like my first, I would say would be my best that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:What about you, babe?
Speaker 3:actually I probably would have to echo it.
Speaker 3:Um, you know, when we celebrated the Fourth of July in Nairobi I don't know how much of that you recall, but yeah, it was definitely special, I mean for the simple fact that we were away from home, away from the United States, and just really just clinging to each other, if you will, and just really just clinging to each other, if you will, not just you and I, but you and I and all of our colleagues there at the embassy, you know, really clinging to one another and just embracing.
Speaker 3:You know, embracing our ideals and who we are and where we come from, who we are and where we come from. In addition to that, it was even more revering to see the response that the Foreign Service Nationals had to our Independence Day, where there was definitely a strong sense of respect and admiration there. And it's kind of different when you feel a sort of kind of way about you know where you're from and then realize that there's people who aren't even from there that have a, you know, have that sort of regard for it as well. Yeah, that was, that was. It would definitely be that first one, Because, even though they were all special, that one just just felt different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, like it was just um, I hadn't really thought about it until you asked the question just now, shelby, but it is different. Being overseas on 4th of July, you all just really shared a lot of wisdom with us today and it just means a lot that you would be willing to communicate, be adaptable and be vulnerable with us. Today, on this episode, you've embodied all of the values that you've talked about. You've shown here. So, thank you. I know that we wouldn't be here at this point in this journey without each of you and your support and your candor and everything. Thank you. I'll hand it back over to Shelby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know what more I can add to that, but thank you for showing up tonight, showing up every day of our lives. We appreciate you and we love you.
