Leadership Tea
The Leadership Tea podcast is where powerful leaders share their journeys, insights, and triumphs through informal conversations about what it takes to reach the executive level. Join us every other Wednesday to be inspired by the unvarnished stories of amazing executives who know what it's like to be "the only" at the table and who have succeeded regardless. They have proven leadership experience in their respective fields, from international affairs to the private sector to academia, and want to help others create their own success stories.
Leadership Tea
Infusing Your Path, Your Way: Leadership Lessons in Pivoting
What happens when a seasoned diplomat becomes an entrepreneur? Belinda shares her inspiring journey of courage and self-discovery after leaving a career in diplomacy. This episode is not just a conversation—it's a heartfelt exchange filled with wisdom and authenticity. Shelby begins with a powerful personalized hype poem encapsulating Belinda's essence and accomplishments. From the emotional farewell to the State Department to navigating the uncharted waters of the private sector and entrepreneurship, Belinda's story is a testament to resilience and the limitless possibilities of embracing change.
Join us as Belinda opens up about the skills and sacrifices that no longer served her and how redefining her boundaries led to a newfound sense of empowerment. She discusses the importance of understanding one's needs and the bravery required to chart a new path. If you're contemplating a major career shift or simply seeking inspiration, this episode is a treasure trove of encouragement and insights. Listen in and learn how Belinda leveraged her skills, network, and dreams to create a life of limitless success.
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I would like to get to the end of this race and, as I close my eyes for the last time, think I'm so proud that I tried. I'm so proud that I took risks. I'm so proud that I experienced as much as I could.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, this is Shelby, so this is a different type of episode because it's a deeply personal conversation between me and Belinda about her pivots from the public sector to the private sector to entrepreneurship. For anyone considering a major career shift, taking the next 30 minutes or so to hear Belinda tell her story is worth it. I won't preview everything she's going to say, but I am going to take a slightly different approach to set the stage. I want to share an oriki that I wrote for Belinda. Linda and O'Reekie is a greeting that praises you. It's a Yoruba word that I learned years ago from New York Times bestselling author Lavia Jai Jones and O'Reekie is. It's like a personalized hype poem. In baseball terms, if you are into baseball, it's like a walking up to the plate song, but it's done in word. I think everyone should have one, or at least everyone should have someone in their life or in their community who loves them enough to write them one.
Speaker 2:I wrote one for Belinda when she left the State Department because I wanted to hype her as she was making what I knew was a consequential pivot, even though a part of me was sad to see her as she was making what I knew was a consequential pivot, even though a part of me was sad to see her leave our profession of diplomacy, because I knew what a loss it was for our institution and, honestly, I was just going to miss having my friend around to reach out to or to take a quick walk with, or to grab tea or hot chocolate. But never mind my feelings. Here's the oriki that I wrote for Belinda, which I just updated a few days ago Belinda Jackson of House, farrier First of her name, dame of diplomacy, mentor, maven with Moxie networking, ninja, gifted with grit and wit, manifester of milestones, truth teller like no other, caring, compassionate, confidant, everyone's cool cousin and forever friend. And with that, let's get into this week's episode. Let's get into this week's episode.
Speaker 2:Do you remember? I remember like it was yesterday. We had a conversation a few years ago and I remember telling you you don't have to be the hero, don't feel like you have to be the hero.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like that makes me think of the skills that you use to get through different seasons of life are not necessarily skills that you can take with you through all seasons, are not necessarily skills that you can take with you through all seasons. So this idea of I must give 1,000% at a great cost and a great toll to myself and my family and my whatever, because I don't have choices or I don't have options, is just what is expected and boundaries aren't allowed for me. That allowed me to get promoted and it opened more and more unhealthy doors, but doors right up the ladder. Ultimately, at this season, that isn't going to serve me well and it took me a while to have the bravery to acknowledge that and to act on it. And it's taken a lot to learn to navigate it, because I think for the first time in my adult life, I'm navigating the unknown, what is unknown for me, a sense of not having an exactly clear path, almost like a syllabus If I do this, then this will happen.
Speaker 1:If I do this, I will get a raise, I will get a promotion, I will whatever, I will have stability. I am just learning a new culture and of the business world that isn't always a clear path. Like you, have to have more independence and a better understanding of what you want and who you are, I feel, than I needed before, because it was just there for me and a lot of variations weren't allowed. I feel sometimes for the first time since really college, I am able to think creatively about what do I want, what do I stand for, what are my boundaries, and know that the only barrier to success is me and success is potentially unlimited depending on how I stay open-minded and leverage my skills and use my network and dream.
Speaker 2:So when you talk about you coming to the realization that you were the only barrier to your success, what shifted? How did you realize that was the case?
Speaker 1:I think there were a couple of different things. One, as you said, there was this period I would offer, really since the pandemic, where I was just consistently unhappy in roles. I wasn't doing poorly in the roles, but I just wasn't happy and additional successes or accolades weren't making me happier. So that pattern of I go here, I go there, this door opens, I walk through it, but I'm still unhappy, unhappy. There came a point where I realized that was a pattern I needed to think about. I also had a friend who really just pointed it out as well.
Speaker 1:I looked back at one point, accidentally, just going through, when we were moving here, moving into our house, and I was going through books and journals, putting them on bookshelves. I noticed a consistent pattern across journals over the last, say, 15 years or so of dreaming of something else, and the dream was consistent, even though I am not a consistent journaler. Right, I might write for a few weeks, for months, this year, but maybe not write again for another eight or nine months, et cetera, et cetera, over the course of at least a decade or more, without remembering that I had already written it down. I kept writing the same thing over and over again, and so I thought, well, that is a pattern, right, remembering that I was in a career that I was very thankful to be in and it had arrived in my life in a moment where I really was at a crossroads. So I was always thankful to the department. So I felt a lot of guilt, like, well, they did so much for me and I need to continue to do as much as I can for them, and there's lots of people who I also feel like I owe this to, which then gets to the final thing that made it difficult.
Speaker 1:Two, everybody had always been so proud of everything that I was doing, even when it was making me unhappy, so I didn't want to disappoint, right, family and friends, yeah. And, and I always think about what would the ancestors want? At that time, I thought these titles, you know, these doors, these rooms, this is what they would have wanted. Yeah, now come to a different perspective on that that. What the ancestors would want for me is freedom of choice, right, like if I have the freedom to go here today but choose to do something else tomorrow, but smell the roses on the way. That is actually what I think For me right now. That's what I believe they would have wanted and, of course, success and blah blah blah. But freedom to not have to burden myself if I didn't want to, yeah, not to be in places that I'm not thriving, oh yeah, not to be in places that I'm not
Speaker 1:thriving, but that's something I've only come to right after a few more experiences. But that's it, like family and feeling guilty about have I sufficiently said thank you and recognizing patterns. It wasn't horrible. It's just that there was a part of me that was curious about what else could there be out there for me. I only have one life to live. I'd like to get to the end of it and know that I lived it to the fullest. Yeah, end of it and know that I lived it to the fullest.
Speaker 1:I used to use this example when I was talking to my teams about particularly working overseas. I only have so much time here when I think I actually got this from a boss actually my boss in Peru. You only have so much time here. And so when you get on the plane to leave for the final time and you put on your seatbelt and you're looking out of the window at the tarmac and waving goodbye to people, what are you going to think to yourself?
Speaker 1:You know, I am so proud that I achieved X and over the last few years I've been thinking about I may not always make the right decision, I may try things and they fail, et cetera, et cetera. But I would like to get to the end of this race and, as I close my eyes for the last time, think I'm so proud that I tried, I'm so proud that I took risks, I'm so proud that I experienced as much as I could. And one thing I'm thankful for that the training at state is that the risks that I take are well-reasoned and deliberative Mm-hmm, but I spent so long not taking risks at all. A new skill. It's a difficult skill to learn, especially at this point in life, but it's one that I think, if I did not try, this second half of adulthood for me would be very unfulfilling and I would get to the end filled with some regrets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot that you said to untack For the benefit of our listeners. When Belinda was referencing the fellowship. It's a fellowship that the two of us applied for while in undergrad. Well, you were in undergrad, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, I didn't get it until I was in graduate school, but anyway, it's the Thomas Pickering Fellowship. It is for the benefit of individuals who are pursuing studies related to international relations, whether it's political science, history, social sciences, etc. The program is intended to recruit students who are interested in a career in the foreign affairs space and, in return for them paying for your graduate school, you join the State Department. That is the Cliff Notes version of what is a very complicated and competitive process. But I wanted to dig a little deeper on something that you said regarding like disappointment. You used the word guilt that you, you felt guilty, that you, you know, had you you raised the question? Have I sufficiently said thank you, you felt like you were disappointing people, perhaps, you know, by, by walking away, and you know the ancestors really wanted, the ancestors would have wanted us to have freedom of choice. I think that's. I think that's true. It's not. It's not that the State Department was the only option for you. No-transcript there.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's as much now, but you know, 20 plus 25 years ago when we were starting, know, 20 plus 25 years ago when we were starting, I feel like there was an unspoken part of the culture, and I don't know if this was everywhere, I mean, I only know this one experience. Right, but there was an unspoken part of the culture that was kind of like. But if you leave, it must mean that you couldn't hack it and something's wrong with you Like you could want to.
Speaker 2:Even Stand up for the rigor or something Right.
Speaker 1:So, like one of my regrets, for example, in that career, was that I never, you know, other than going to the situation room, I never really did an assignment somewhere else. Like I really wanted to go to the Hill Me too, but at the time that I was eligible for that, there was just something in the culture that said, if you leave here, even for like a year or so, and go somewhere else, it must be because there's something wrong. Do you need a break? Are you stressed out? Is someone in your family sick? Like why do you need to go somewhere? That must mean slowing down, right.
Speaker 2:And why does people want to slow down when you're on those trajectory?
Speaker 1:things are going great and I wish I had not listened to that, but I do feel like that was very strong and it affected reputations. I really I have to reflect back on it, but I I don't think it's as strong now. The other thing that I had to get over right was that somewhere probably I don't know, I I don't know where I picked up also that. And if you leave and you don't go to somewhere that we respect, then it must mean that something's wrong with you. And if you do something that's unaffiliated with something that we, if you go and you do your own thing, what's that about?
Speaker 1:Or you pursue some interest that's deep in your heart. Or you pursue some interest that's deep in your heart Like, let's say, you leave and you decide I've always wanted to be an artist and I'm going to go open my own gallery and sell my art you know, I don't know in Portland and I'm going to live my life and it's going to be amazing and I'm going to have a huge impact on people through my art. I feel like the energy was like oh so you can't make it somewhere, like you're doing independent things. So, for some reason, that mindset was really in me and that also kept me frozen, right. Well, I don't want my reputation to be that I couldn't hack it because I can. Right, I'm not a loser, not a loser. Also, as you said, I have these benefits and this stability and so if I leave this, it has to be really good.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what good looks like or how to, because, you know, as you said, because I came in as an undergrad, I signed that contract when I was 19 years old. I truly did not have another professional experience. I moved from, you know, an apartment with my grad school roommate to El Salvador. Like I didn't. Like, I graduated in December and started the State Department in January. I didn't have a a period of exploration between my Right you were doing real adulting immediately.
Speaker 1:Immediately, but yet within this culture. Yeah, this very this culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:This very specific culture. So there were a lot of emotional hurdles that took a really long time for me to work through, but I think that people now across industries have more examples of people exercising those boundaries and that independence than I think we did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what you said about you know what is it that the ancestors really wanted for us? They wanted us to have options. They didn't want us to be boxed in like this is the only path that you're meant to walk down. They really wanted us to have a variety of options that they were just shut out from having, right? So could it be that you were tired of winning? I mean, is that what ultimately pushed?
Speaker 1:you to leave. I was tired. That period of time took a lot out of me those last like five years or so, and I also didn't take a break before I went to the private sector. Yeah, that's one. My lack of self-esteem and belief in my own abilities were a huge detriment there when, I left Right.
Speaker 1:I had a reputation and other people kind of constantly cheering me on, pushing me through while I was at State. But when I left that and I had to be my own cheering squad and believe and really believe that I should be at tables, I just didn't have it. I was both tired and I didn't believe I should be at tables.
Speaker 2:I just didn't have it. I was both tired and I didn't believe I should be there, and everyone listening to this is going to be surprised. At least you know the folks that know you, because it's like Belinda Jackson-Ferrier, like Belinda's amazing. Belinda can do anything that she sets her mind to do. You know how could it be that she was lacking in self-esteem? What's that about?
Speaker 1:And it was to my detriment because, right, it's a competitive environment and if you show weakness, it's just game over, yeah, and so I was never really able to.
Speaker 1:One thing I learned there is that I am a good leader, but I need space to lead, and because there's just something that happened in the dynamic where I was never able to demand that space effectively. Yeah, and as I think about you know, there are some other things that I'm working on now, and there are some other things that I'm working on now and I actually was thinking this through this weekend as I was thinking about a conversation I need to have with a client about claiming that space. You have hired me to do X, because this is the value that I unquestionably bring to the table. I need you to fall back and let me do what you hired me to do, and then I will go on with my life. But, like I can't get it done, doing it your way. If that worked, you wouldn't need to hire me.
Speaker 1:I didn't have that in me two years ago, right, and so as I was leaving corporate, corporate, everybody around me was like, you know, oh, you're great there's, oh, you do so much stuff and we're really excited to see where you land on your feet, and I felt like you know, some of that was shady. Some of that was earnest, right. People were like why are you leaving? Yeah, we were just getting started, right, right but Right. But okay, wherever you go, you're going to be great. You're going to land on your feet.
Speaker 1:I remember being so upset here at home, just being really frustrated with people saying you're going to land on your feet, because I'm like how do you land on your feet? I've never been in this situation before where I've walked away now from two things that I didn't have to walk away from. Yeah, and I'm not sure what the next thing looks like like. People are like you know, you're a blinda, you're gonna land on your feet. I would love a roadmap, please. Right, I would love to know what. What are you envisioning so I can pursue?
Speaker 2:But clearly you came up with the roadmap because here you are.
Speaker 1:What do you think has gotten you to this place? So, I think several things. One I have an incredible, vast and diverse village around me, so, but I do think that I have a lot of people who are able to you know, family, friends, who are able to help me settle myself and think Right, that's one. Right.
Speaker 1:I am a big believer in also just having all the resources right, all the the the all of it like you gotta have a whole, and not just when you are in the wilderness, but like all along right To lead, like all along right to to lead. This has been the first period of time that I could think in my adult life, like just think, and it has taken some time to have the bravery and I keep I keep going back to that word. But this period of wilderness is really about bravery, having the bravery to dream and then believe in the dream. And I do feel like, as I have more contact with people, particularly in the business world, that is something I feel they have in common. They're just like yeah, I had this idea, like I was just gonna start a thing and I just started it and I I don't know if you remember, but there was a period, maybe like 18 months or so ago, where I was like I want to be 19 or 20 year old belinda again who just thought of things and did them. I just did them.
Speaker 1:I want an after school program Let me just give it to my friends and this professor and let's just start one. I want just whatever, just do it. I've had to relearn how to be her. I'm really convinced that if I had that audacity again, with the wisdom I have now, and you put them together, it could be really great. Yeah, so it's time to think, sitting with the village, and then it's believing in the skills that I know that I have right, believing the skills that allowed me to succeed in those environments there was government or corporate or whatever, um, and just saying like true and honesty.
Speaker 1:I used to have moments where I would have to deliver bad news or something to a boss or have a difficult conversation with an employee and I would literally think to myself as I walked into rooms like the truth will set you free, like I just have to tell the truth. It's going to be pretty, people are going to be upset, bad things are going to happen temporarily, but it is better than what would happen if I was not honest in this moment. Yeah, I've had to get to the truth will set you free. Moment with myself right and and um, and also a little bit privileged, right, a little bit entitled actually. Yeah, I am Belinda and I should be at this table.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't like this chair. Get me a new one.
Speaker 2:Recognized. Or how about? I'm going to change the table altogether because I don't want Actually. Right, I'm going to make my own table. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:I don't like this water. I want sparkling next. Like I have had to believe that that person deserves that. That she exists and that she deserves to be there.
Speaker 2:say what advice would she give to people who find themselves at this crossroads, similar to what you experienced, where you have this well-intentioned let's assume most are well-intentioned and not wanting you to move on and do something different, but something is tugging at you to walk away. What would 19-year-old Belinda say to someone who's facing a situation like that?
Speaker 1:I'm laughing because I'm pretty sure 19-year-old Belinda's favorite word was revolution. But I do think that 19-year-old Belinda was really good at mobilizing people and seizing the moment and thankfully, 19-year-old Belinda really believed in public service and community and caring and giving. But I do think, and I just think, 19-year-old Belinda was very clear on what she believed in. She was very clear on who her community was to support her in that and she was now, when he's a spellman word, undaunted in her efforts to achieve those.
Speaker 2:And her efforts to achieve those. Dare, I say, you're doing all of those things right now, as you launch Sweetgrass Advisory, as you're, you know, involved in other projects that you have, you know, planted the seeds for and we're just waiting for them to bloom. I mean you're seizing the seeds for and we're just waiting for them to to bloom. I mean you're seizing the moment. You're giving back, you're still caring, you're still building community, nurturing community, and you're undaunted in everything that you touch. I'm just privileged to be here to like witness it all. It's amazing, thank you, it's amazing, thank you, it's amazing. Wow.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like this deserves a part two. I feel like there's still more that we could unpack when it comes to you know making such life-changing pivots and all the lessons that you've learned from shifting from the public sector to the private sector, to entrepreneurship. There's a lot, but you've given us some really valuable insights on you know making sure that you have freedom of choice, that you're not boxed in, that you're willing to take risks, but that those risks are deliberative and that you call the shots. You call the shots and you seize the moment. That's what I'm taking from this conversation, thank you.
Speaker 1:It was a we went in directions I didn't expect. We're probably in the right direction. Hey, it's Belinda. We covered a lot of ground during today's episode.
Speaker 1:It wasn't easy for me to share all of these insights about my journey, but when I have my amazing friend Shelby Smith-Wilson by my side, I know I can do anything. There are a few takeaways that I hope you leave here with today. First, when making a pivot, understand your why, what are you solving for and what are you seeking on this new path. Next, know that pivots are part of a journey. It's not a quick trip around the block. Wherever you go, you'll be doing great things that you haven't done before meeting new people and, overall, changing your outlook. Doing all of that takes time.
Speaker 1:As I've watched many of my friends change their careers during this season, it's clear to me that quote-unquote landing on your feet takes time. Sometimes it takes years. So extend yourself some grace and prepare to do the work. And prepare to do the work. You hear Shelby and I frequently mention leaning on your village. That is true when you're leading during challenging times, pivoting or even launching a new venture. Your all-star team is so important to your success. Don't be afraid to ask for help and advice. Finally, have fun. You are in the wilderness, but that's an amazing adventure. Sure, you'll have some unforced errors, you will make some rookie mistakes, but you won't be a rookie forever. Keep betting on yourself. I'm sure you will never let you down.
Speaker 1:Thank you again for joining us for another episode of the Leadership Tea. You know where to find us wwwstirringsuccesscom, or on Instagram at leadership, underscore T. We love comments, reviews and fan mail, and you can feel free to access those features on whichever platform you're listening to us on. Season one is drawing to a close. Y'all, we have one more episode left before we take a break and come back better than ever. But don't worry, season two will be here sooner than you can imagine, so see you soon. Thanks again for joining us on the Leadership Tea Podcast, where we are sipping wisdom and stirring success. Bye.
