Leadership Tea
The Leadership Tea podcast is where powerful leaders share their journeys, insights, and triumphs through informal conversations about what it takes to reach the executive level. Join us every other Wednesday to be inspired by the unvarnished stories of amazing executives who know what it's like to be "the only" at the table and who have succeeded regardless. They have proven leadership experience in their respective fields, from international affairs to the private sector to academia, and want to help others create their own success stories.
Leadership Tea
Navigating the Middle: Brewing Agency Amidst Boss Battles
Managing from the middle can feel like navigating a tightrope, especially when you're caught in the crossfire of clashing bosses. Ever wondered how to keep team morale high when the ones above you can't see eye to eye? Join us as we unpack the unique struggles of middle management. Drawing from our personal experiences, we reveal the art of leading small teams while gracefully managing upwards. It's about being the calm in the storm, ensuring productivity doesn't wane amidst upper-level tensions, and mastering the balance between authenticity and discretion.
In this candid conversation, we explore the power of emotional intelligence in turning a challenging dynamic into an opportunity for growth. Discover how we strategically approached bosses who didn’t get along, and the proactive steps we took to safeguard our teams. Whether you're a middle manager seeking advice or simply curious about the nuances of corporate life, this episode is packed with insights and strategies to help you thrive in the middle. Listen in and find actionable advice that might just change the way you approach your role.
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Hey everyone. So we thought that this week we would talk about some of the challenges that we have faced when it comes to managing from the middle. Belinda and I both know that being middle managers can be really difficult, especially when you are thinking about leadership positions with greater responsibility and wanting to build your leadership acumen. Usually you have to start from the bottom up right. You start often by leading small teams. You know, maybe you're supervising an intern, a fellow, before you ascend to a position where you're managing larger groups of people.
Speaker 1:But it's often those middle management years that really put your skills to the test and really puts you in situations where it's difficult to find your way, especially if you are dealing with a supervisor who either doesn't know how to lead or isn't the best manager, or you may find yourself in a situation where your boss and your boss's boss don't get along, and that can be extremely difficult. And so Belinda and I thought we would have a free-flowing conversation to explore both of these situations. So I'm going to start by talking about what it's like to manage up when your bosses don't get along. It's something that I've actually experienced a few times, and in those situations it's interesting. As I reflect on it. I didn't realize right away that my bosses didn't get along, and oftentimes it's not going to be a situation where your boss comes to you and says, hey guess what.
Speaker 1:I don't like my boss. It's, it's usually doesn't work that way. It just kind of reveals itself over time and and it's like, okay, well, what, what do I do in in this situation and how do I? And how do I keep the trains moving? At least that was my mindset.
Speaker 1:I was responsible for other people who reported to me and I reported to someone, and then that person reported to someone, and so I was like again the middle layer, and I saw myself as a transmission belt and I really had to tap into my emotional intelligence on many occasions to ask myself OK, what benefit will it bring for me to share the level of drama that is playing out between my two superiors with the team? You know, is that going to hurt or help them? And it was this tightrope that I had to walk in terms of not wanting to be inauthentic or not wanting to be disingenuous about the situation, or not wanting to be disingenuous about the situation, but, at the same time, knowing that I was responsible for the team and knowing that we had a mission to accomplish and that by delving too much into the drama between our superiors, it wouldn't have been productive. You know, it would not have helped for me to become part of the drama. One of the things that Belinda likes to say is is know the drama but don't be the drama. And so that was extremely applicable in this situation where I knew that, you know, it was my job to take care of the team. It was my job to to acknowledge, you know, the tension between our bosses to the extent that it made sense, but not let that interfere with the team's productivity, and it was not.
Speaker 1:It was not easy, right, Like I'm not going to sit here and sugarcoat like, yeah, it was great, you know, we just kind of figured out a way. It was really me as the middle manager, constantly thinking about how do I navigate this operating environment in a way that will continue to ensure that we are getting the job done. And sometimes I would have very honest conversations with my boss and my boss's boss, sometimes together, sometimes separate, but it did get to a point where I had to have candid conversations with each of them to say, hey, listen, I know that you and X don't see eye to eye, you don't get along. But here's the situation that you and X don't see eye to eye, you don't get along. But here's the situation, here's the, you know, the new task at hand that we need to get done. How can I help you?
Speaker 1:It was a lot of me managing up and even coaching them to a certain extent to say how can I help you be successful? You know, I'm looking out for you, I'm also looking out for the team and I just want to get this right. I want us, you know, to be successful. I want you to be successful, and some of it was, you know, me. I don't want to say like massaging their egos, but there was a little bit of that Because, again, I felt that it was my job, you know, to protect the team and whatever it took to do that, as long as I wasn't doing anything illegal or immoral, you know, I took it on myself to just, you know, take some risks and have some candid conversations and and get, get things done. So I'll pause there and turn it over to you, Belinda.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know. Thank you. I think a lot of that, as I reflect, managing in the middle just requires a different skill set than managing from like very top of an organization, but it's not any easier, right? Like both of them are difficult in a different way. And I think that managing the middle probably even pushes your particularly your EQ skills, like your emotional intelligence skills, and your frankly internal EQ skills, like your emotional intelligence skills, and your frankly internal diplomacy skills, maybe even further, where I think, like at the top you get to. What's difficult is maybe you know setting a vision and change management and you know building a team and bringing people along on a journey, but and that's hard but when you have to manage such a range of personalities without power and and yet there's still an expectation that you get the job done and you lead people to do it, I mean that's just incredibly hard. And I don't know if we have all the answers, but as I reflect on many of our, our episodes, like it's just you need like a whole, like you can't build a house with like one brick, like you need lots of bricks, right, lots of pieces of the puzzle in order to put this whole picture together.
Speaker 2:You know, for me I was reflecting on experiences where, honestly, I had bosses who, just like, weren't ready for the positions that they were in, and that was often combined with a lack of performance and a lack of self-esteem. And so it was not only that like, okay, this person may not be ready for the role that they're in, but also I have to and still has the expectation I get my job done, but they want me to do so in a way that doesn't challenge them or make them make it obvious that they don't know what they're doing. And I have to write do so in a way that doesn't undermine them with the rest of the team or across the organization. And so I was reflecting on an overseas experience where I had a boss who, you know, was just in a very, very senior role and had kind of risen up the ranks very quickly and hadn't kind of done a breadth of leadership roles before ascending to a very senior role. And we had a major crisis, like literally a major international news crisis, and this person just didn't know.
Speaker 2:We turned to this person as a leadership team and said, hey, really bad things are happening. Literally, the international press is outside with live cameras trained on us, what do you think we should do? And this person just was not ready to step up to the moment, right? And so you know, in that instance, literally lives were on the line and and so, in a way that wasn't demeaning or wasn't, but still got the job done, it was like, perhaps right, do this and do that and do this and do that. Would you agree with that plan? Really, taking the extra effort and it took a lot of energy, time, strategy stress to often I had to be very proactive in that role, right. So in talking about that particular instance, I was overtly proactive, but in general, in order to lead the team to fulfill our mission, I had to say, okay, I've got to like, do this alone. I can have a temper tantrum and say like I don't have the boss that I want. I don't know that this is the boss that I have.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so I need to come to the table with options. Hey boss, I know you don't really know what I do, but here's what I think the vision is. If I'm wrong, here's how I plan to get to it. And you know, here's what the team can do A, b or C.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right and even though sometimes it was annoying or this and that I would often, because again there was that dynamic of like a lack of self-esteem, I had to also work to make sure that individual felt part of the decision process.
Speaker 2:Like I don't want to sound like I was being manipulative, I was just being like real about what the situation was, because I I need to get the team where I need to get them, I need to get the job done in ways like I have to get the job done and I had to work with a challenging personality to do it and I can either fight but those weren't hills that were worth dying on.
Speaker 2:I could fight which wasn't going to be helpful to the team, or I could find ways that honestly and authentically, you know, help the boss see what we needed to do. Sometimes we got the boss to help us get the resources we needed, but mostly got the boss to not be a hurdle so that we could get things done. And so I think for me, the big lesson and that's not the only experience similar to what you've had where bosses don't get along You've had that multiple times I think we've all had instances where we need to lead, but the person and the layers above us isn't ready to be the leader that we need them to be and we just have a choice in both of those scenarios.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:To be the mature one at the table and figure out a way forward and lean on and all the other things like we talk about in other episodes, like leaning on your village. This is when you call your village Right, have a temper tantrum.
Speaker 1:Exactly Like girl. Let me tell you the crazy that I just experienced today episodes like leaning on your village. This is when you call your right. Exactly like girl. Let me tell you the crazy that I just experienced today. You would not believe, do you?
Speaker 2:have wine right yes so like that's, these are the moments you call up the village, where you call the village for advice, like hey, I gotta get this thing done, but right, so andand-so.
Speaker 1:What should I do, because they are wilding out?
Speaker 2:Right Right. This is when you land and you're like you assess, after your first few days on the job, you're like, oh, this one's going to be a problem. Okay, my 90 day strategy. As I think about what I'm doing with the team, I also have to factor this in Right Right. But I often see people just kind of get frustrated that, oh, this is not a boss that I would like to deal with. Yeah, so I'm just going to stay in an unhappy and unproductive place. It doesn't seem like the best use of your time, Exactly, or the team's time. And look, sometimes people are just obstructionist and that's what it is.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's a different challenge and requires a different skill set and a different reaction and action plan.
Speaker 2:But this, I think we're both describing scenarios where there is space for you to still operate if you choose, frankly, diplomacy.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think that is the theme of this episode Choose diplomacy, Choose diplomacy. But also, I think the underlying message that we're conveying is that you have agency. You always have choices in how you respond and react, and so what are you going to do in those situations where your boss is not up to the task? You know to do the job at hand or your bosses aren't getting along? Are you going to sit there and wallow in the situation, or are you going to come up with these proactive strategies that you just described? You know to figure out a better way and stay mission focused?
Speaker 2:totally, I completely agree. Well, I feel like these were all good lessons. I think we've given folks enough to kind of stew over a little bit um and I think um really, no matter where you are choosing diplomacy and remembering that you have agency are critical, are critical.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Great. Well, I think we want to. I'll say thanks to everyone for listening, and we always encourage you to go to our website at stirring successcom to learn more about the things that we do and more about us, and you can also follow us on Instagram at leadership underscore T, and sometimes we put stuff on YouTube too, so you can check us out there. Yeah, please check out our channel. Yeah, leadership Tea Podcast. But for now, we'll just simply say, uh, thanks for sipping wisdom.
Speaker 1:Yes, we look forward to sipping with you again soon. Thank you.
