Leadership Tea

Taking Your Power Back with Cathy Duffy | S3 EP3

• Belinda Jackson Farrier and Shelby Smith-Wilson • Season 3 • Episode 3

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How can you transform unexpected career changes into opportunities for reinvention and personal growth? With returning guest Cathy Duffy, Belinda and Shelby talk about how to respond to forced career pivots, a reality many professionals are facing right now. 

Cathy shares her story of a forced "early retirement" and how she used this pivot to pursue her interests, including studying at Oxford University. Cathy underscores the value of flexibility, self-awareness, and redefining power as "power with" rather than "power over." 

Belinda and Shelby offer insights into their own experiences with career uncertainty. They encourage listeners to lean into their communities and to approach this time with a mindset of exploration rather than fear. This conversation serves as a reminder that unexpected changes can lead to profound personal and professional transformation, if you approach them with curiosity and honesty.

In this episode:

  • Letting go of preconceived notions about your career path 
  • Embracing flexibility and being open to exploring new possibilities 
  • Redefining power not as “power over” but as "power with"
  • Recognizing that life has peaks and valleys – and how to take advantage of the valleys
  • The importance of self-reflection, and learning to listen to the signs that life provides.

Where to find Cathy:

Resources mentioned in this episode:

  • Oxford Next Horizons program
  • Mel Robbins' book, "The Let Them Theory" 
  • Heather McGee’s book, "The Sum of Us: What Racism Costs Everyone and How We Can Prosper Together” 

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Belinda:

This is the Leadership Tea Podcast, where we talk about not only what does it take to become an executive and operate at that level, but also what you should do once you arrive there. Thanks again for joining us today. In today's episode, we'll talk about what do you do when you are forced to pivot to pivot. Many of our listeners are experiencing this, both our public and private sector listeners. How are we operating right now in this space where we have had dreams, we've worked hard for them, we had goals and it feels like those are being ripped away from us through no fault of our own? We have an amazing guest today, kathy Duffy, who shares her experience about how she leveraged a forced pivot last year and what she's doing now. Many of you may remember Kathy if you've been listening to the podcast for a while. She was our very first guest last year. She is an amazing and inspiring speaker and I know that you're going to get a lot out of the words that she's going to share with us today.

Shelby:

I can't wait for you to hear the episode with Kathy. But one of the things that we wanted to do in this pre-talk is to acknowledge again a lot of the turmoil and change and forced pivots that a lot of our colleagues and friends are facing right now, and just to emphasize again that Belinda and I don't have all the answers. We're trying to have authentic conversations and share with you openly some of the things that we are doing to manage in this moment and one of the things that I've been doing, as I, too, am facing some uncertainty in terms of what the next career move will be for me, whether I stay with my current employer or if I decide to make a career change, whether that means diving more into my coaching business and being an entrepreneur, or seeking employment with another agency, or exploring the private sector or academia. These are some of the things that I'm thinking about right now, and I am trying to take things one step at a time and not think that I need to have a playbook where I'm writing down exactly what my next move is going to be, because right now I don't know what my next move is going to be. You know, to borrow one of the phrases from Belinda.

Shelby:

There's no playbook right now for a lot of the turmoil and turbulence that many of us are facing, and so I'm using this time to think about how do I reinvent Shelby If money were not an object? What are some of the things that I would want to do for myself with my talents? What are some of the things that I may have wanted to do years ago, before joining government and being a public servant, but I was too afraid. So, just taking a step back right now and thinking about what are the things that bring me joy and what are some of the things if I truly step outside of myself and put the fears aside, put aside this drive to make sure that I'm checking all the right boxes, but really thinking about what are my passions and what are some of the things that I could explore right now if I were to just let myself be free.

Belinda:

Yeah, shelby, that's, I think, the right way to approach it. In my coaching practice, I talk to people a lot about being honest with themselves in the way that you just described and not allowing fear to drive next steps. When we do that, we land in places that ultimately, are not healthy for us and we're going to end up having to make another pivot very soon. Right, this is a time where we have to say all right, I've been handed some lemons and how am I going to make lemonade? Maybe I'm making lemon slushies, I don't know. But we have to stay future focused. We have to not allow fear and intimidation to move us right, and we have to be honest about our realities.

Belinda:

Feeling overwhelmed by our responsibilities, that can be blinding too, and that's a lot of pressure. Right, I've been forced to make a pivot Next year. My kid's going to college. What am I going to do? I've been forced to make a pivot. I got to pay my mortgage tomorrow. Yes, these are realities, but we just need to take a beat, take a breath, come up with a real, feasible plan that's going to help us in the mid to long term, and execute. We've said it many times here this is a time where you lean on community, and we've said it many times here this is a time where you lean on community. We cannot make these pivots and these kinds of decisions in isolation. We really do need to lean on community, on professionals. This is the time where you get support. It's not the time where you just start throwing your resume at anybody who will catch it.

Shelby:

Yeah, Just take a breath. Just take a breath, just take a breath. And now is not the time to be an island of one. You really have to lean on people and build your community. Find your community and don't be afraid to ask for help. Find your community and don't be afraid to ask for help. You have to navigate situations like this with other people who have been there and are going through it and want to lend a helping hand. In one of our episodes previously, we talked about hubris, and that is something that I see some folks struggling with right now. They are so accustomed to having all of the answers and feeling as though they've got everything under control, when right now they don't and they need help, and it takes a certain level of humility to realize when you need to ask someone for assistance. I would offer that advice. If someone is willing to help you, let them, let them.

Belinda:

But the other side of hubris is shame. Yeah, you should not feel shame. I haven't met anyone in recent months, whether it's the private sector or public sector. I haven't met anybody who should feel ashamed. This happened to you, right? You didn. This happened to you, right, you didn't happen to this. So okay, that happened. Now we gotta move forward. But there are people who aren't seeking help and aren't seeking community because they feel like somehow this was their fault and it's not.

Shelby:

Yeah, yes, belinda, that is so important so many of you. What you are experiencing right now you had nothing to do with. You did nothing wrong. Life goes sideways. Sometimes Bad things happen to decent people. We can't stress that enough, and so we really hope that this episode about taking your power back and reinventing yourself we hope there will be some nuggets of wisdom that will resonate with you and help you get through these challenging times.

Belinda:

And if you aren't already watching us on YouTube, you're missing out, because I'm still here knitting. Check us out on YouTube at the Leadership Tea Podcast. We'd love it if you comment on the video. Let us know how you're navigating this period in which a lot of us are being made to pivot. We'd also love it if you subscribed to our channel as well.

Shelby:

And, without further ado, let's get into the episode.

Belinda:

Cathy, thanks again for joining us. It's really an honor to have you back. You're a fan favorite. Your episode remains our most downloaded episode of the Leadership Tea podcast, so it's really great to have you here. You have made a career pivot. What made you decide to make the changes you've made this year?

Cathy Duffy:

Thank you for having me, shelby and Belinda. A lot has happened since we were last talking. I was leading a major insurance company then and then last summer I was given in quote unquote early retirement and it came a little earlier than I was expecting. My husband and I had another plan that we were going to execute in April of this year where I was going to retire myself. But then, with all the changes and I know a lot of people are going through being let go at the moment or are in fear of being let go and I faced that last year and the irony of it is that it was at the same time, a couple of weeks before my son had been made redundant, and so a few weeks before that he had seen this huge dragonfly and he knows how much dragonflies mean to me and he told up what a large orange dragonfly means, and it actually means transformation, some career issues, all that. So I sent a message to my son saying is everything okay with your job? And he said, yeah, everything's fine, no worries. And then about a week or so later he was made redundant along with 64 other people. He's in programming and the programming world is going through a huge turmoil at the moment, and then, about a month later, I was given early retirement, which is a polite way of pushing you out the door and I realized that the reason why he told me about the dragonfly is because we both were going to go through a major shift in our lives as a result of being pushed out.

Cathy Duffy:

As such a high profile person, a person that so many people looked up to Black and white, but majority Black women across the board I was like the touchstone for people, particularly people of color and mainly Black women who are striving for their career. So it sent ripples through the work world and I had to be very careful with how I handled it, because I didn't want people to make rash decisions or feel that they were going to be next and I wanted people to continue to do their jobs, even the company that I was pushed out of, because a lot of them were very upset and I'm like no, you don't want to give anybody an excuse for shutting Bermuda down or for pushing you out. So, regardless of how you're feeling about me, I want you to continue to do your best and that will be your tribute to me. But at the same time, I was very honest about what happened to me, because so many people pretend like they retired themselves and I'm like, why should I do that? It's actually okay if you're pushed out. It's what you do after. That matters, right? And that's why I was very honest about what happened. And people were like I can't believe you're telling that story and I'm like I'm stopping you all from gossiping.

Cathy Duffy:

Number one and then number two this shows that we're all dispensed and what are we going to do next? So that's where I am right now. I'm at Oxford University. I was supposed to be coming to Oxford in 2026. I have been accepted in the program for 2026. The day I was given early retirement, I called Oxford and I said can I come in 2025 instead? Because I wanted to give myself a rest and to open my mind to something completely different and I felt that this was a great opportunity to do that. And they said absolutely. The difference between 2025 and 2026 is my husband was supposed to be with me, but he's not because he's back at home doing the house and trying to figure out what we're going to do with that and all that good stuff. So we're a year ahead of where we were going to be, and that's just the way life is right now. You just got to be prepared to be unprepared, needing to be prepared to be unprepared.

Shelby:

Yes, it's such a powerful reminder for so many of our listeners, given where they are in life and some of the challenges that they're facing in their careers, and there's so much that you said just now that I would love to pull some of those threads. Honest and being transparent, especially with the people who looked up to you and were depending on your mentorship and need to have a positive example to follow. I think it's so important to not sugarcoat what's happening to so many people right now, and I just applaud your honesty and your authenticity about what happened to you, and one of the things that Belinda and I wanted to ask is how are you coping? You dedicated a lot of your career to being a successful executive at the company where you were working most recently, and so there must have been a sense of loss and we were just wondering how are you doing with the forced pivot?

Cathy Duffy:

The sense of loss was actually for other people, not for me, right, because I knew that I was going to be exiting soon, because I was at the point in my life where it was time for me to give back more and in the role that I was in, I was not allowed to do that. It was a very controlled way. The higher you get in an organization, the less freedom and flexibility you have, because you become almost like a part of the brand and if you step out of line, some people feel that it impacts the brand, because the way that we have evolved now, from a corporate perspective, from a personal perspective, everybody's got these brands and it almost leaves no room for mistakes, no room for growth, no room for trying things out and seeing what works and what doesn't. It's either black or white, and it's so ironic because that's now how the world is. We're being separated and put into tribes when we are all very much the same at the core. So I was actually on my way out anyway.

Cathy Duffy:

So the biggest loss for me was what was going to happen to the people that were left. It wasn't really about me, because everything works out for me. I know I'm going to be fine. I'm in a valley right now and that's what happens with life. You have peaks and valleys, and I'm in a valley and I'm taking advantage of being in that valley to do a lot of exploration about what comes next for me.

Cathy Duffy:

And so, yeah, the loss was mainly for other people and what did that mean for them and how were they going to be and who was going to be their advocate? Who was going to be the one who spoke up, even for Bermuda in terms of a global company? So that was what the loss was to me. And then, if I step back a bit, I did go through like for about five minutes, and then I had to talk to myself. I went through this thing of who in the world do these people think they are, that they could push me out With everything that I've done, all that I have added value to this company, such a huge name in Bermuda. Who did they think they are? And that was like for about five minutes. And then I'm like, who cares who they think they are? This is about me now. So I've got to pivot out of that and figure out what the opportunity was for me is for me.

Belinda:

Yeah, everybody has a brand right now, and the brand doesn't allow for any growth or any mistakes. So now that you have this space you said it's giving you an opportunity to think and explore Are there any lessons that you've learned thus far that you would want to share? What have you learned about navigating the opportunities that this force pivot has brought you?

Cathy Duffy:

Don't have a destination in mind when you are in a great period of uncertainty, because then you block yourself from all the different paths that show up. We're all so defined, right, that when you do that you actually keep yourself in a prison. And it was so interesting my tutor here because we have a tutor that gets assigned to us because we're doing a project coming up with a project which I've just pivoted from actually yesterday completely changed my project based on being at home last week and different things people said to me. But he was saying to me about talking about diversity and talking about what that means, and I was like, oh my goodness, can I say that? He said you are no longer controlled by a company. So why can't you say that?

Cathy Duffy:

And you know, because you're so conditioned to be so careful that you forget what your strengths are sometimes and what you're actually put here to be and do. Who have always been on the outside looking in, because of the resiliency that's built from that, the creativity, the empathy, the emotional intelligence, all those things that people in those categories actually end up catching up and overtaking very quickly. And a part of what's happening in the world now is they've got to put people back in their places. The greatest lesson that I'm learning is don't put any limits on myself at this moment, don't have any expectations right now and don't define myself too tightly. Just keep open, receptive grateful.

Belinda:

I just want to really underscore what you just said, Cathy, because it's something that I see so much in my coaching practice that I really try to help people work through, and I'd want our audience to really understand that at this moment, you cannot come to the table with preconceived ideas of who you are and what you're capable of. There is so much change and there's so much turbulence and there is such a desire to put people back in boxes that you need to think creatively. You need to take an opportunity to say if I can't have what I hoped to have, what I was working towards, if I have to pivot, at least let me pivot on my terms and to pivot to the thing that's going to allow me to thrive. When I pivot to that, the doors will open.

Shelby:

I feel like I could just sit here at your footsteps, Cathy, and learn all day. You're amazing, I know you know you're amazing, but I just want to say it out loud. I think everything that you're sharing is going to resonate, because it's resonating with me, and one of the things that you said that I wanted to follow up on in terms of not having a destination in mind, to piggyback on what Belinda said and not blocking your path that, to me, is such a testament of what it means to take your power back. As you reflect on everything that you went through over the past year and where you are now, how do you define the word power and what does it mean to you to take your power back?

Cathy Duffy:

I think that's a big part of the problem in the world right now. Right, because people think that power means that you have to control everything and that you have to be the one that knows everything, and that it's more like power over, whereas the power that actually works is the power with, because we can't do anything on our own. There's always somebody that's helping us, there's always somebody that we need, there's always somebody that, even the worst person that comes along and does the worst thing to us and I think I've said this so many times before that person is one of our greatest teachers, because they're actually teaching us how to be and what not to do, and when we're triggered, that person is triggering something that we've been concealing about ourselves.

Cathy Duffy:

Right, my speech that I gave last week for the honors, I based it around a conversation that I had with someone who, when I was telling people that I had been given early retirement and that I feel that I've been cold to the more, and this person flippantly said cold to the more.

Cathy Duffy:

And this person flippantly said you've been cold like three or four times, you have nine lives, right, and that pissed me off, right. I was triggered by that statement, but then, when I reflected on it, I'm like, yeah, I have been cold three or four times and, guess what, I have more than nine lives, as does everybody else. Like, why do we think that we have to be one thing and why do we think that we can't constantly be changing and growing and accepting of situations that turn us upside down? Was it because we weren't paying attention to the signs along the way that were telling us that we were not where we were meant to be? And then life comes along and smacks us saying, okay, you're not listening, so I've got to do this, and I've got to do it spectacularly, so that you're going to really take the time to reflect on why you're in this place. Yeah, exactly so. Power is not the old way of being, of power over, it's actually power with. We need each other.

Belinda:

Agreed. Is there something you wish we had asked you? Is there something else you'd like to share with our audience, many of whom are having to think about how to leverage these forced pivots that they're being put into?

Cathy Duffy:

I do feel that the world is being asked to remember that we are much more powerful when we empower each other, that we are more like powerful when we empower each other, that we are more like them. We are different. As Heather McGee says in her book the Sum of All of Us, it's not a zero-sum game, and now people are starting to figure out that when you choose fear, you actually make it multiply, and that's why there's so much uncertainty, so many people losing jobs, because we have to go to the extreme to come back to the light. And the question that we all have to ask each other is each one of us manifested. What's happening now and what are we all, as individuals, going to do to now shift back to a place of light?

Shelby:

that's so powerful and is like a double click on our last episode, where we talk about what are you going to allow to guide you in this? Are you going to be rooted in fear? Are you going to be rooted in love? Are you going to focus on light or darkness? That's really the key, and one of the things that Belinda said, which dovetails nicely with your comments, is community is the real hero right now. If anything, I think we're all learning the value in reaching out to the people who matter to us, doing things, being there for people who need us, right. So I have just been amazed at the outpouring of love and care and concern and the humanity that's it.

Cathy Duffy:

Yes, vivek Murthy, the US Surgeon, ex-us Surgeon General. He says that the greatest epidemic that is happening in the world is loneliness, and that is what is allowing this sort of administration to rise because people want someone to come and save them.

Shelby:

Yeah.

Cathy Duffy:

Whereas if we went back to being in our local communities and reaching out to each other, that's where change happens. But we all think it's like this huge thing when it's actually small and local, of what you can control right Within your area. It's not like this big glorious thing that's going to happen, that will happen eventually with each one of us, but it's not going to be like we're going to get the golden ticket and then it's all done, like we each have to incrementally face our dark sides and make change. Yeah, yeah, okay.

Shelby:

Kathy, we're going to shift to our lighthearted part of the conversation. So what are your workds for the year?

Cathy Duffy:

Entitled, deserving and worthy.

Shelby:

Okay, entitled, deserving and worthy yes to all of that. Yeah, I'm like preach.

Belinda:

Yeah, yeah. All right, I'll jump in with the next one, which is are you listening to anything in particular that you'd want to share, whether it's music, or a podcast or an audiobook? What are you listening to these days, mel?

Cathy Duffy:

Mel Robbins " them. Yes, I'm loving that the Daily's had a few pretty good ones. Hidden Brain has been on point as well, and then, of course, oprah. Her podcast is just amazing as well. Music-wise, I do like Dolce and I do love Beyoncé. Those two are, like you know, already have my tickets for Cowboy Carter.

Shelby:

That's right.

Belinda:

I knew you would. I knew you would. That's awesome.

Shelby:

That's awesome, all right. Last question who inspires you?

Cathy Duffy:

You know it's a combination of people, it's not just one person. Of course, oprah's top of the list Michelle Obama, beyonce I don't even know how she got to be third Like she's, probably because that woman is the queen of reinvention. Like that woman, people say how dare she get into this? But she proves over and over again that we are not one thing. She appeals like, like my 21-year-old daughter and I are going to see Beyonce together. You know what I mean. And she's been around for 40 years or whatever, and she's still reinventing herself because she refuses to be contained. My biggest inspiration is actually my mother passed away, because I feel like I am living the life that she never got to live, you know.

Belinda:

Yeah Well, I want you to know that you're an inspiration for us and really this is largely why we wanted you back on the show. You back on the show. You've said so much today that speaks to this moment and is really inspiring and is actionable. We need to feel that sense of entitlement, understand that we're worthy, trust ourselves and not allow ourselves to be defined, and so you really embody that for us. Every week you share inspiration across your social media platforms. Do you want to talk about that for people who may want to connect with you and hear more of your words on a regular basis?

Cathy Duffy:

I started that when I turned 60. And it was my year of exploration and discovery, so I would just every Sunday tell people what I had done that week and then when it came to the end of it, people were like you can't stop, you have to keep doing it, because that's something that I look forward to. I've also had this three-year scene from my 60th, because I sort of knew 2025 was going to be pivotal, right? 60 was my year of exploration and discovery, 61 was my year of getting into position and this year is my year of execution. And so I do the talks on my Instagram at @Bermuda Cat. In the past I would never have told anyone that, because that was not supposed to be a big thing, because the one thing that I don't want to do is start speaking to what I think the audience wants, because when I start that, I say happy Sunday and I don't even know what's coming out after that. It's not rehearsed, I have no idea what I'm going to say, know what's coming out after that. It's not rehearsed, I have no idea what I'm going to say. So I posted on Instagram, on Facebook, and then this year I've added LinkedIn and that's because I'm in this program.

Cathy Duffy:

It's like a leadership program. It's the Next Horizons program at Oxford University. It's for people that have retired or people that are at the top of their careers, that want to make a major shift in your life. So you're here for six months. On Thursdays. We have lecturers that come in, very high profile lecturers we had Ian Golden here a week before last. We've had people that talk about language Sarah Ogilvie she wrote a book, the Dictionary People. We get very interesting people that come to speak to us on a Thursday, and then Tuesdays it's all about aging what we want out of life, life and its meaning. And then Wednesdays we do personal presentations and that sort of thing, and then you have access to all these lectures that happen here. So I'm just keeping people up to date on what that's all about through this platform.

Shelby:

That's amazing, and I, too, follow you on Instagram, and now I'll be sure to look for your posts on LinkedIn. It's the same thing.

Cathy Duffy:

It is Okay, it's the same thing. Sometimes we try to separate business from personal, when in fact the personal and business are intertwined. So true.

Shelby:

Well, we look forward to continuing to follow you, Cathy, and thanks again for being such an inspiration. We really appreciate everything that you've shared with us today and just wish you all the best.

Cathy Duffy:

Thank you, and I just want to say thank you to Shelby, you and Belinda, and I think we all inspire each other when we tell our truths.

Belinda:

Yeah, that's a word.

Shelby:

All right, friends. Please like and subscribe to the podcast on YouTube. Follow us on Instagram at leadership, underscore T and if you liked what you heard today, please write us a review on Apple Podcasts.

People on this episode

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Belinda Jackson Farrier

Co-host
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Shelby Smith-Wilson

Co-host