Leadership Tea
On Leadership Tea, we talk about what it takes to reach the executive level, and how to thrive when you get there. Powerful leaders share their journeys, insights, and triumphs in conversations with hosts Shelby Smith-Wilson and Belinda Jackson Farrier.
Join us every other Wednesday to be inspired by the unvarnished stories of amazing executives who know what it's like to be "the only" at the table and who have succeeded regardless. They have proven leadership experience in their respective fields, from international affairs to the private sector to academia, and want to help others create their own success stories.
Leadership Tea
Ambassador Robert Gilchrist: Leading with Integrity, Empathy & Ice Cream | S3 EP10
Belinda and Shelby welcome a distinguished former diplomat and senior leader, Ambassador Robert Gilchrist (Ret.). He shares insights from a career spent navigating complex global challenges, from leading teams under intense pressure in Iraq to advocating for democracy and human rights in Eastern Europe.
Hear how he stays grounded in his values, including his Quaker faith and his commitment to civil rights. He offers advice for leaders at every level on how to address toxic environments, maintain integrity in the face of ethical dilemmas, and cultivate self-awareness to become more effective leaders.
In this episode:
- "Ice cream diplomacy" for breaking down barriers and fostering team connection
- How Ambassador Gilchrist grounds his leadership style in his values
- Leading with empathy and maintaining resilience in challenging or
- Ways staff and leaders can address toxic work environments
- Why self-awareness and humility are crucial for effective leadership
We publish new episodes every other Wednesday.
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Hey, welcome everyone. Today we have chief of mission, which is like deputy ambassador. He had a similar role in Estonia. He held roles in Washington. He was in Iraq as well as Romania. His career as ambassador in Lithuania and then as a senior leader we call it principal deputy assistant secretary in the part of the State Department that handles democracy, human rights and labor affairs.
Speaker 1:So Bob has a long and storied career working in environments where human rights was an issue, where democracy and democratic reforms were issues. He knows what it means to lead teams in extremely challenging environments and spaces where the playbook just isn't clear. When I worked for him, as well as Shelby, we worked for him in an office in Washington that kind of serves as a nerve center of sorts or an emergency or crisis center for the State Department. So, again, leading a team that is operating under intense pressure and unpredictability.
Speaker 1:For me, wanting to invite Bob to the show today was really about reflecting on my observations. I think Shelby might have similar observations, seeing him lead with integrity and empathy and be extremely effective in that, and I think that in spaces that are experiencing lots of change or where conditions are extremely dynamic, that type of leadership can be very useful. We don't always have a lot of great models for it. So, no matter who you are, no matter where you are, there are very clear parallels and lessons in what Bob is saying in today's episode to whatever it is that you are experiencing where you are in life. Like we're going to be talking a little bit about diplomacy, but trust me, whether you're in the private sector or the government or academia, there is something here for you.
Speaker 2:Bob epitomizes what it means to be a citizen leader. You will hear him talk a lot about being human, seeing the humanity in others and looking for the light within, especially when things seem dark and dreary and depressing. Bob has a special talent and ability to dig deeper below the surface and bring out the best in people, and we're just really fortunate to have him on the show and think you'll get a lot out of it.
Speaker 1:So sit back, relax and listen to Words of Wisdom from Ambassador Robert Gilchrist. All right, bob, thank you so much for joining us today. We're really excited to have you on the show. One thing that we really wanted to discuss today is how you have grounded your leadership as a reflection of your values, and your values they really come through in the way that you lead, but they also come through in the way that you interact with people, and one thing that stuck out to me when I worked with you was your love of ice cream and how you shared that passion and that hobby with your leadership team and with everyone in the office. It was magical. Can you elaborate on how you've used ice cream in your leadership toolbox?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm going to start with something else first, which is, first of all, I'm delighted to be here with you two ladies, two of my favorite people in the world, whom I've had the opportunity to serve with and to know as colleagues and as friends, and to observe as leaders as well, and so for me it's a delight to be here today. It's a great way to spend an afternoon. Ice cream I'll have to say a few things about ice cream. For me, it was partially my own sort of science project. I wanted to learn to make ice cream at home. That was like good texture with interesting flavors, and so I became an obsession. Challenge was, if I made it for myself, I was going to eat it, and so it became something for sharing and it made me popular at dinner parties.
Speaker 3:All of a sudden I started to realize and I realized it was a way to really break through. When I would talk about it at work, people say was a way to really break through. When I would talk about it at work, people say bring it in. Pretty much everybody likes ice cream. It really serves as a source of enjoyment and a way to bring people together and in a formal way then it leads to really breaking down barriers and plus, I could use the office as a guinea pig on new flavors. So that became part of it too, and I had a panel of judges who could let me know what they liked or didn't like. But yeah, it's a fun thing. That's something I still do, and I spent a lot of time doing research on how to make the best ice cream.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I actually love three things you've said there, right, this idea of research and really digging into details and being very deliberative about what you're doing. But I also love what you said about texture and flavor, as I reflect back on how that reflects on leadership this idea of being deliberative, bringing different textures and bringing different flavors to your teams. It really resonates, so thank you for that.
Speaker 3:I never thought about that, but that actually is true. You're looking at a team is comprised of lots of different components. You got the flavor, you got the texture, you got the adventure sometimes in what the and what you're actually making and what you're trying, and so I never quite thought about that. And the risk a little bit of risk too, because you don't quite know if it's going to come out right. I've had some failures. It was my ice cream maker, I got to say it.
Speaker 2:I'm just jealous that I didn't get a chance to take advantage of all the ice cream making.
Speaker 3:Well then, shelby, that gives me a challenge to figure out how to get you some ice cream.
Speaker 2:Yes please.
Speaker 3:We'll have an ice cream party. We'll do it, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm ready. I'm ready to say the word.
Speaker 2:Okay, Belinda you're invited too, but I do want to follow up on something you said in terms of textures and flavors and breaking down barriers. That resonated with me, because I know that you, throughout your career, you have done a lot to break down barriers in really all of the office settings that you've been in, whether it was overseas or domestically settings that you've been in, whether it was overseas or domestically, and Belinda and I have the privilege of knowing that you are literally a walking civil rights movement. You've done so much throughout your life, professionally and personally. How do you respond to that, and what is it that you want people to know about your story, in addition to all the ice cream making?
Speaker 3:It's been an evolution actually for me. I think a component of it was coming to terms with my sexual orientation. I'm gay In an institution that in the 1990s was not equipped for that. When I began to realize who I was and see that injustice not just against me but against people, lgbt people injustice not just against me but against people, lgbt people and knowing that it was wrong, it really motivated me in many ways to stand up for that in different sorts of ways. And I was privileged to be a part of the sort of organization of LGBT people in a state department which is now an independent outside NGO or 501c3. But it, a served as an opportunity for me to meet others like me. But then B I had many models of people who were actually more forward-leaning than I was and who were actually standing out at a time when it was very difficult to stand out, and I learned a lot from them and I admired them, and then I began to realize that I could do some of those same things. I'm going to say something else too, and this will seem a bit off, but I've also was inspired by my faith.
Speaker 3:Around 1999, 2000, I went to a meeting of the Quakers, the Society of Friends. It was unlike any kind of religious experience I've been to, because I stepped into a room of silence. The way that this branch of Quakerism that I became a part of operates is you sit in silence until you're moved to speak and you're speaking basically from your conscience, the thing that kind of nags at you that says this is right, this is what I need to say, this is what I need to do, and for the Quakers that's sacred, that's God, and there's a bit of God in everybody. You just have to listen. It in many ways was a revelation to me, and it led me to realize that there were things that I could do as a leader, as an emerging leader at the State Department, as a gay person, as a smart person in Washington DC at the time DC at the time and there were things that I really had to do, and so it in many ways propelled me to be forward leaning with regard to human rights and civil rights and by that equal rights for everybody, not special rights, it's the equal rights and to be a person who speaks out against injustice. When I see it, and sees the human or the God in everyone.
Speaker 3:That in different kinds of ways really, I think, helped me and then also provided reassurance that I was on the right path when I was acting that way, when I was acting based upon sort of the inner voice and the things that I'm getting. As I said, the Quakers say that's God. I think we have it in all of us and for Quakers, when you have those messages, when you have that, you have to act on it. That's what it's about. That, in many ways, has propelled me you got to be strategic and smart and I think that's been an element of how I proceed. Quite thought, when I'm trying to figure out if I'm doing the right thing or following the right route, I really go back to what my inner voice says, really listening to it and then recognizing the importance of acting on that, and I keep part of that is fighting against injustice, so I'll keep doing that.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that, bob. As you were talking, I was just remembering what it felt like to sit in your office on a daily basis and think to myself I'm so lucky that I work for you, I'm so lucky to be witness to this. I appreciate everything you just said, especially I wrote down. There's a bit of God in everybody. You just have to listen.
Speaker 2:I wrote that down too.
Speaker 1:What would you say to people who are struggling right now with how to be brave and support their teams and be leaders now?
Speaker 3:You know, these are challenging times for many people in different areas and all walks of life. The world is changing quickly. We're a very polarized society now, so there's a lot more fighting and there are a lot of challenges. I think there are a number of ways to look at it. First of all, you got to take care of yourself. By that I mean take care of your health, take care of your mental health. As the flight attendant says, you breathe first, then you can help others. And you got to do that and stay sane. And sometimes that can be challenging.
Speaker 3:And I think of when, say, I served in Baghdad in Iraq during really one of the worst times of the war there in the green zone. But there wasn't anything green about it, not very much a couple of palm trees, but otherwise it was dirt, and we were getting rocketed all the time. And work in the embassy, which was Saddam Hussein's old palace. It was intense and people were burning out. People were exhausted. What I did my best to do was to try to stay sane myself and then to try to help others around me. You don't always know what people are going through on their own either. I think you try to see the inner light in people. You try to help them. You try to stay sane and focus on the task at hand, because you got to do your work too.
Speaker 2:Got to get that stuff done too, but it's complex no-transcript, just from people who are in leadership positions, but people who want to lead and want to be a role model and don't know how they are witnessing people behave badly. Some of them are working in toxic environments and they want to speak up, but they're just not sure what to say, how to say it Just frankly. They're stuck, they don't know what to do, and so I'm wondering do you have any advice for people when it comes to leading from where you are and what to do when you witness toxic behavior? What advice do you have?
Speaker 3:There are a few different ways to look at that. I can say that when I was an ambassador or even deputy chief of mission which for people out there who don't know, that's the deputy ambassador Something I came to learn is that you don't always know what's going on behind closed doors in different offices or different parts of an institution that you may be leading. It can be very, very hard for people who are lower down on the ladder to actually go up and say we have a problem. And when I was leading in these much higher leadership positions, it often became difficult to sort of read the environment and know what was going on. Folks have to realize that more senior leadership won't know what's happening if they don't hear, if somebody doesn't come and explain, and it becomes much more difficult for them to then guide, change mentor I hate to say discipline.
Speaker 3:Sometimes the source of the problem if it's a mid-level leader or the challenge, is someplace else. I know it takes a lot of courage sometimes to speak up, but I think it's important. But you also got to be strategic too and do it in a way that's constructive. Do it in a way that as much as possible tries to see the inner light that inner bit of God in the person who is perceived as being the bully or who's creating that toxic environment, which can be really, really difficult. It can be very easy to vilify someone, but you often don't understand what they're coming with. They might not be equipped as a leader, they might be having problems at home, they may be having their own challenges, they may be having cognitive issues you don't know, or they may simply not understand really how to lead or the gravity of the problem, and so I think you want to look at that person or the focal points for the challenge with understanding as well. It ensures that you're managing up with empathy. It also, I think, helps guide you in being strategic in how to try to actually bring about the change.
Speaker 3:I hate to say it, sometimes you can't change it, and what I found out, what I've discovered in myself, is the career that we've had. We've had lots of different office environments From one job to another after every few years. What I've learned is when their challenge is at work, that's when I look at other elements in my life that nourish me, that can make me happy, that can keep me stimulated, that make me realize that I am still a good person somewhere in there that give me the energy and the stamina to move on. That's how I've looked at it and I hope that this is helpful to some of your listeners out there.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it will be. I think you hit on a really important point that you just never know what people are going through. You don't.
Speaker 3:You don't.
Speaker 2:And I think we saw a lot of that in the pandemic. I think we saw humanity at its best at the height of the pandemic and unfortunately it feels like we've lost a little bit of that compassion.
Speaker 3:I still think there's an ally in everybody. We just got to find it. The pandemic had a big impact on all of us. I'd say the flip side is that we realized we need other people yeah, Some of us started to go crazy Is that we realize the importance of the bonds that we have with other people colleagues, friends, others who we couldn't actually see except virtually. So I'd say that's a flip side of it. But yeah, there's some hard edges, I think, right now that are a bit hard to deal with. But I think we can still use the same tools that we've got inside of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, and what you've said. For me, the part that really resonated is this idea that, as senior leaders, we need to make sure that the doors open for people to be able to bring reality to us safely. And I can certainly think of at least one occasion where I learned too late that people were working in a really toxic environment and, short of anyone telling me, I had no way of being able to tell right, and I found out too late. People started leaving the organization and we started losing talent, and that's too late. So thank you for that.
Speaker 3:As a senior leader. That's the thing that'll bite you is you don't know what's going on behind the curtain. It's like a theater. The curtain goes up and then they're all sort of putting on a performance for the senior leader who they want to impress. They feel they don't want to bring these issues to them, and then the curtain goes back down and you don't know what's going on behind there. I guess my advice for the folks on the other side of the curtain is you got to look at ways to ensure that senior leadership knows in a respectful way and in a way that I think is strategic, but you've got to ensure that there's information flowing up, and sometimes that means going around that mid-level a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1:Definitely, and sometimes that's tough, but where you can do it, you should. Over the course of your career, when you've worked in environments where the circumstances have pushed you maybe in directions that are uncomfortable, or maybe the environment just hasn't been pleasant, how have you maintained your integrity and your focus?
Speaker 3:There's a few things I think I decided throughout my career of 34 years because you saw people who leave at different points for essentially moral grounds or ethical grounds is that I knew that my job was to implement US foreign policy, which I would. Is that I knew that my job was to implement US foreign policy, which I would always do. That was my job, our job. It should be a part in our DNA as foreign service officers. But I also recognize that if there was any point where I then had to compromise my ethics, I was in the sort of a line of decision-making, not just sort of as a foreign policy I disagree with. That's our job, to implement it regardless and to be diplomats. But if I myself found myself in the crosshairs of that, then I would make decisions about whether I needed to lead the organization and I didn't ever find myself directly in the crosshairs and I always recognized that I worked in the service of the American people and American democracy and constitution and that I would continue to operate that way.
Speaker 3:Going back to when I found myself in difficult positions that seemed to be untenable, I think one of my faults is I have the tendency just to blame myself entirely. All of us have experienced those interpersonal dynamics where you think I'm not getting through to this person or this isn't happening. Then you'll find out. No, actually everybody perceives that. It's not only me, but oftentimes I then look. I look first at myself and look at ways that I can or should adapt my behavior. Some of that is being the far youngest child and having far older siblings that I had to figure out how to adapt to and who could be pretty high maintenance, and so I look internally at how I can change to adapt to it.
Speaker 3:I look at how I can help others and then also look at that last element that I went to. Do I go higher? Do I look at ways that I can strategically try to help? And then also look at ways that I interact with. If it's a difficult work environment, how I let that leader know and that difficult conversation can be the most.
Speaker 3:That's the most difficult thing and it's something I'm you know I still probably need those when I had to have them is to see the inner light in them, to see things from their perspective, to see what I can do either to help or to adapt and it's a tough one, and those sorts of things are the things that keep people up at night. I know they kept me up at night. What I can say is that I always got to the other side of it I think all of us when we've had these challenging times with challenging people. You get to the other side and 99% of the time you end up perfectly fine, especially if you're coming about the challenges you've got in a thoughtful manner, I think, and doing it with empathy to the extent that you can.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate the thoughtfulness of your answer in terms of looking within yourself first and not being quick to cast blame on others, but to really check in with yourself and be aware of how you are treating a certain situation and how you're receiving people. One of the things that I have done in approaching difficult conversations recently is imagining the person on the other side of the phone or on the other side of the table. Imagining them as a five-year-old who was this person when they were a child, especially if they're problematic as an adult, just so that I can try and find an empathetic way to connect to them, to deliver bad news or to have a hard conversation if that's warranted. I really appreciate your perspective on adapting, because that is something that I have also had to work on in senior leadership positions. I think it's critical to just continuously check in with yourself.
Speaker 3:I think self-awareness is really important. I know this is a slight tangent. You guys sort of pegged me as a leader with empathy. I'm very careful about branding myself or tagging myself because as soon as you start doing that, I think you realize that it's all a work in progress. Still, my goal is to be a leader with empathy.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you remember Belinda, but my motto as a leader certainly as I became a senior leader when we worked together, I said I want a happy, healthy, productive extended office that we led when I was ambassador. I said happy, healthy, productive and it became my mantra and then others took that on as well. During the pandemic, when I was ambassador of receives, the healthy part took over a lot more than I was expecting. But I started with happy, because we all want to operate in that kind of environment. But I also always saw it as a goal.
Speaker 3:I never wanted to rest on my laurels saying that I have a happy, healthy institution organization. I always set that as my goals and I also always personally thought that you know I'm getting cocky. I better watch out. The universe will come after me and I think a lot of leaders who fall into the trap of being those who create toxic environments, really don't have self-awareness and don't recognize that they themselves can be the source of a particular problem. Some of the profiles in leadership leadership I think that I admire most are the people who actually self-corrected, who were able to take constructive criticism and then change it, and I know a lot of cases where people haven't been able to do that and you know it creates more problems and it draws a problem out.
Speaker 1:That idea of self-awareness is so important and combining it with clarity and humility right, because it does take a lot of humility to self-correct. But I often think about. I think it's like a Sesame Street song or something, where they're like one of these things is not like the other. Like when I'm in the workplace I'm actually kind of thinking the opposite, like what is the common, what is the thing that is like everything else? And if it's me right, if every problem, everything keeps coming back to me, then a change has to happen. Right, and it needs to start with me. I need to accept that and it's something I strive for. Right, I don't always get it right, but that type of self-regulation and self-reflection, it's not taught and that's the leadership class a lot of people need, but that type of self-regulation and self-reflection.
Speaker 3:It's not taught and that's the leadership class a lot of people need. People have to not be afraid of saying I'm sorry Either the employee who's got issues, the staff member who's got issues or the leader and I've known a lot of leaders who could not say I'm sorry, who could not try to wipe the slate clean and deal with that issue head on. That was causing challenges in the office. I think is important, even if you don't quite understand what's going on with you and where you've been problematic or difficult in a situation. I think you got to start with saying I'm sorry and then figure out how to wrestle with the change that you need to make.
Speaker 3:And people appreciate that and it brings everything back down to a very human level. We're all human beings. What we're duplicating in an office space is in some ways like a family structure, a village structure, a tribal structure, whatever you want to call it. We're duplicating that in a 21st century office space with computers and type A personalities who some feel like they were competing against each other or whatever. There's all that kind of stuff. But I think you got to realize that in the end we're fundamentally human and when you bring it back down to human scale. Sometimes that's a way to help detoxify an environment.
Speaker 2:Completely agree. So now we're going to shift to the lighthearted part of our conversation, and I'll start by asking what was the last thing that you read.
Speaker 3:And I'll start by asking what was the last thing that you read? I am reading this book right now that I absolutely love. It's called Inside of a Dog. Do you have a dog, Shelby? I don't. Belinda has her dog. We've talked about this and I have my golden retriever, whom I'm like in love with, and it's by this author, Alexandra Horowitz. It's what Do Dogs See, Smell and Know? It's fascinating Look at Belinda's face.
Speaker 3:She is lit up like a Christmas tree. It is fascinating. And then you don't see your dog the same way. It's not a bad thing where all of a sudden, you think there's a wolf in my living room or something. No, you can even start with. That dog is down. What a foot, two feet up, what the world looks like, that Dogs can smell literally a million times more than we can. So when they're smelling that bush or they're smelling that other dog's private parts there's a lot going on there or when you wash your dog which we still have to do all of a sudden you've removed all the smells that they love and then tell them everything and putting chemicals on them that stink on them. So they want to go find a dead animal to roll in and they're like ew.
Speaker 1:what is this?
Speaker 3:But you realize really how brilliant they are, yes, and how dogs can even know not just who walked someplace, but you know that they walked yesterday or that they walked a long time ago. You know what other dogs were all around and when you're taking them out for a walk and they're doing all that smelling and sniffing, there's a lot going on there and their noses are wet because it helps them maintain the scent. This is just like a little bit.
Speaker 1:I'm loving it. I've just put it on hold at the library. Boom, good, good, it's going down. Well, our next question is what's your ideal vacation?
Speaker 3:I grew up in Florida, so beaches are what I've always known and they're normal to me. When I was a child, growing up in Central Florida, there were a few things I dreamed of. I dreamed of beautiful, old, historic cities and things like that which Washington DC is and certainly you see that in Europe and gosh Middle East and all sorts of places, peru, which you know well, and I was just there in again for my second time in January and February. I like to go and have an enriching experience and I'm not a person who wants to go sit on a beach and just relax, because I get bored pretty quickly. I want to go see a castle or ruins. I want to eat magnificent food, like in Lima, which you told me before I went.
Speaker 1:I had no idea.
Speaker 3:I had no idea how amazing.
Speaker 1:You never have too much.
Speaker 3:Peru, oh my God. Every trip to a restaurant was like a visit to a Broadway show or whatever, and so I still enjoy that, and I generally go places where I've got my friends, and that's been a privilege. I think of the career that we've had is that we know people all over the place and we can maintain these strong relationships because we can go visit them and see where they are. My new hobby after ice cream because I was making too much ice cream and I had an impact on, say, my girth, which I've worked on over the past year but I've been making Indian food and so I really want to go to India, which I've never been to. So I'm making all this Indian food all the time and I don't know if it's authentic because I've never eaten food in India. So I want to go to India. That's just in my mind. I haven't figured out when I'm going to go, but I'm going to do that at some point.
Speaker 1:That's cool. Maybe you could say food or spice to it or something like that.
Speaker 3:I want that, or I want to cook. I've looked online and there's cooking classes, like in Mrs Patel's basement Okay, she's an Indian grandma who knows how to cook. Maybe I need to go there and learn from her. So I've been looking at stuff like that, like even just ways that I can really understand that cuisine, which now I've started to really enjoy cooking.
Speaker 2:Now you've got me hungry. All right, Ambassador Gilchrist, one more question who would you have become had you not chosen the career of diplomacy?
Speaker 3:I have absolutely no idea. I can look back at where I was when I was first called by the Foreign Service and told that I was admitted in. I was in graduate school at University of Virginia, maybe going to get a PhD, but like a master's was what was right ahead of me, and I just stayed up all night working on some sort of presentation. And then got a call at 830 that morning before I was going to class to deliver this presentation. And hey, when do you want to start? And all of a sudden there's this whole different conversation and my life took a different path. I might have ended up getting that PhD in political science, because how societies operate and the impact of citizens on their society and all the different elements that play a part in a political system are fascinating to me. And then, matched with it is even before I was a Quaker a sense that I could be a citizen and that there are actions that I could take that would influence how my society operated, and so I might have ended up doing that. So I might have ended up doing that. He'll deny it.
Speaker 3:But one of my brothers actually came up to Charlottesville to basically give me a lecture on how I needed to go to law school or get an MBA, because I think they were worried that I was going to be a ward of the state or dependent on them, and so he lectured me on that because he wanted me to have some sort of profession that was going to, in a clear way, get me somewhere. And I guess I'm fortunate that the Foreign Service called me. But I guess I might've gone into academics writing papers all the time, pushing to publish. I don't know, but I feel really blessed and I feel blessed to have served with both of you two, and really I look at a 34-year career that I had and it's like a rich tapestry of different experiences hardship, difficult times, challenges, toxic environments, non-toxic environments but I learned a lot along the way and I had a far richer life that some kid from a small town in Florida ever thought he could actually have. So thank you, thank you to the two of you for helping me with that.
Speaker 1:Thank you Like it has been enriching and an honor for us both to work with you and to have you here with us today. I don't always take notes and today I've been taking copious notes because I think you've just given that masterclass in how to be a citizen leader. If you are reflecting what good citizenship is pretty much universal anywhere in the world, right, don't be a jerk and bringing that into the workplace and using that to inspire your teams. You can give direction, you can show impact, you can bring meaning to people without demeaning them. So I thank you for teaching that to me in real life and to bringing those lessons here today.
Speaker 3:I got to set up the ice cream party, by the way, and there's some new flavors. I want to try Bay leaf vanilla. See, I don't quite know what bay leaf tastes like None of us quite, do. You put it in the pot and I want to figure out what it actually tastes like, and I've seen recipes for that.
Speaker 2:That sounds amazing. You said bay leaf, bay leaf.
Speaker 3:I thought you said bay leaf.
Speaker 1:I knew you were going there, I was like yeah Bay leaf, we can do bay leafs too.
Speaker 3:I'll have a bay leaf, one Bay leafs we can get, and then bay leafs also, because I want to figure out you both, we know where your mind I was like.
Speaker 1:Oh, I've got an ice cream maker. I'm going to get some Baileys. And I'll throw a Baileys in it too.
Speaker 3:Yes, but I'll do a Baileys one also.
Speaker 1:Yes, let's have two types. I'll definitely need an ice cream party. You've got me thinking, so we'll figure that out. I think we've got a lot of mutuals we can invite. It'll be fun, do we?
Speaker 3:need the like it. If we don't like it, we can add. No, I'm just joking. Everybody's welcome to bring joy and bring us all together.
Speaker 2:That's true, that's true and to bring light. Thank you, bob, for being such a light, seriously, and for reminding us to see the light in others and others, but you have certainly been a light for me and Belinda and countless colleagues and friends who really look to you as a source of inspiration. You truly are a very special person and we're just we're grateful to have had this time with you. Thanks again for joining the Leadership Tea podcast today. Please share this episode with at least three of your friends today. Please share this episode with at least three of your friends. Subscribe to us on YouTube if you haven't already. We are excited to have you as part of this community. We look forward to getting your feedback. Please consider leaving us a review and we look forward to Sipping Wisdom and starting success with you again real soon.
