Leadership Tea
On Leadership Tea, we talk about what it takes to reach the executive level, and how to thrive when you get there. Powerful leaders share their journeys, insights, and triumphs in conversations with hosts Shelby Smith-Wilson and Belinda Jackson Farrier.
Join us every other Wednesday to be inspired by the unvarnished stories of amazing executives who know what it's like to be "the only" at the table and who have succeeded regardless. They have proven leadership experience in their respective fields, from international affairs to the private sector to academia, and want to help others create their own success stories.
Leadership Tea
Part III - Shutdown, But Not Shutout: If You Had Nothing to Lose, What Would You Try?
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What if a shutdown could be your reset button? We sat down with digital strategist and communicator Afua Riverson to explore how a forced pause can surface buried passions, heal old narratives, and point you toward work that actually feels like yours. The conversation starts with a candid check-in on grief, time, and why a week of D’Angelo and 90s R&B can do more for your spirit than another round of headlines. From there, we trace a path many first-gen leaders know too well: the pressure to choose “serious” careers, the habit of overperforming to earn love, and the quiet cost of shelving creative callings.
Afua lets us into her turning point - health challenges and the radical question: Who am I without the titles? What she finds looks like a treasure chest: sketchbooks, museums, movement in nature, the old dream of fashion and creative direction. She builds a “joy list,” a simple, repeatable practice that grounds her when anxiety spikes and imposter syndrome knocks. We dig into the leadership skills that emerge from this reset - creative direction, innovation, and culture-building - and how those gifts translate into real value for teams and brands. If you’re navigating the prestige treadmill or wrestling with immigrant expectations, this is permission to pivot without apology.
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Welcome to the Leadership Team, where we help you understand what it takes to get to the executive level and also what it takes to thrive once you get there. Today we have a very special guest on this one of our third, I think, bonus episode related to the government shutdown. We have with us Afua Riverson, who is a digital marketing strategist and communications expert. I've had the honor and the privilege of working with her in the past. She is smart, she is professional, she is honest, she's always at the cutting edge of what it means to be an expert in this space. And so I'm really honored for us to bring her here today to share a little bit about how she is using this time and this moment to think more expansively about what are her professional goals and dreams and what is it that she hopes for for herself in the future. I think that's going to be instructive for all of us. And I'm really excited that Shelby and I can join her today. But before we dive into that element of our conversation today, I thought that Shelby and I could share a little bit about how this week has been for us. You've heard us talk about the impact of the shutdown directly on our families and how that has been tough to navigate. I think for me, this week has been one in which I have really purposefully, I've been very intentional. It's been hard, but very intentional about thinking positively about the future and thinking about um all of the great things that I've built and the great things that that um I am capable of and really trying to execute and really trying to bring that vision into um you know into reality. So for me, it's been about taking in, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Maybe taking an inventory of all that I have built over the last couple of years and all of the experiences that I've had that are going to help me navigate through this moment and really having a future-focused kind of attitude about that. I'll stop there. And Shelby, what are thoughts that you might have on this?
SPEAKER_01:I appreciate what you said about future focused and thinking about what you want to build. I'll admit that there were a few moments during the past week where you were my personal cheerleader. There were some days where I was just like, ooh, I don't know. I don't know how this is all gonna apply. Um and having your positive energy um was definitely a bomb for me. So I appreciate that. And I appreciate this is why we always say community is clutch, because you need people in your corner reminding you of who you are and what you can do in order to overcome a lot of the obstacles that we're facing right now. I would say over the past week, I was reminded that even though we are living in a time where we are impacted by the federal government shutdown, and a lot of people in our network are going through it. This is a moment in time. And time is precious, time is short. I was reminded of that during the past week when one of my favorite musical artists passed away, D'Angelo. That hit me. I was like, Yeah, D'Angelo, like he was a central figure in my like coming of age as a college student, as a young adult. And you know, the fact that he passed away at just the the age of 51, it's crazy. That that struck me. And it was a reminder that life is short. Life is short. And even though we're going through a time that, you know, sucks, frankly. Um, we need to remember to hold on to the people that we love, the people who mean something to us and make sure that we're not taking them for granted. Um, and in addition to just listening to a lot of D'Angelo's music this week to kind of comfort me, it reminded me that music is also a source of comfort, especially right now when I don't want to watch the news, I don't want to hear all the terrible things that are happening and the fact that Congress is still stalled on what to do regarding um the budget and everything. Music is is an escape. And so I found myself listening to a lot of D'Angelo, a lot of 90s RB. Let me tell you, the 90s were like that was a decade. I don't know about most of our listeners, but you know, and no offense to those who were born at a different, you know, different time frame. But the 90s, when it comes to just like neo soul and true rhythm and blues, man, you can't. I was listening to 702, SWV, yes, Odyssey. Yes, I mean, it just took me back to a really happy place. And honestly, that that helped me get through last week. So music. I want to remind our listeners, music is is a source of of comfort in times uh that are stressful.
SPEAKER_00:A hundred percent. I've been listening to a lot of D'Angelo. May have been watching a few videos too. Yeah, right. That did hit me, and I've just been really struck by um how time has flown. I still feel like I'm in my 20s, and how we really need to take advantage of each day that we're here and live it to the fullest and be curious about it and and explore and look at the legacy he left because of the passion that he felt each day. And you know, it took him four years to write, produce voodoo.
SPEAKER_01:Four years in between the first and second albums, and then like seven years. I don't know, it was a lengthy period between albums two and three. It was a very long period.
SPEAKER_00:Like to gather something for four years, right? And you don't know fully how the world's gonna receive it. Is it gonna be worth all the effort? Like, what is success? How are you defining it? And it makes me, I I spent a lot of time this week thinking backwards and thinking, okay, I've spent a couple of years building what I have now, slowly, brick by brick, very intentionally, very meaningfully. I know I have a solid foundation. Um, and I didn't know then where I would be now, but I I still built and trying to kind of follow that D'Anto example. Right. Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think that's an excellent segue to what we want to talk to our guests today about. Afua, thank you so much for joining us. We know that you know, this this time for for you, our colleagues, for a lot of people, um, is filled with a lot of emotions and and stress. And as Valinda mentioned, you know, when we think about what we're building for and how we can focus on the future instead of being stuck in in the moment of right now. I'm just wondering, as you think about, you know, your life, your goals, your aspirations, and as you think about just all the craziness that's happening in the world right now, if you had nothing to lose, and so many of us are in a position right now where it's like, okay, let me just try this. But I just want to ask you, if you had absolutely nothing to lose, what would you do? What would you try?
SPEAKER_02:Well, first, thank you so much for the opportunity. Um, I am a fan and listen all the time to the podcast. Um, so very grateful for um being able to speak with you guys during such a complex time. And I would say that's such a great and deep question. The first thing that came to mind was being a creative director um andor also in the fashion industry um and designing. Although I went on to study political science and public policy, um a lot of that was informed by my parents um who you know came from Ghana. And so I'm first gen and the oldest of five, um, native to the DMV. And so I felt an extra pressure to be everything that they wanted me to be. And it honestly wasn't until last summer, due to some health issues, and I was on FMLA, where I really had to sit with myself and ask myself who are you outside of the titles and the projects that you've done. Um, like who is a FUA outside of being a sister, a funti as I like to call it, a fun auntie. Um and it took me a while to get there. And I soon discovered that after I had graduated from my master's program, I just went on this like endless cycle of just trying to climb up the ladder within my profession, not even kind of taking in everything around me because I'm trying to get people to feel as if there's again, their sacrifice was worth it. And um I'm grateful for that. And you know, as I climb the ladder, they're with me. And um as I sat in it, I actually was connected and reconnected with Belinda. And I I was on the struggle bus. I was on the struggle bus emotionally, mentally, and physically. And what I will never forget is how she lent out her hand. We hadn't seen each other in maybe a year or two years. Um, but as soon as she saw me, she was just like, please call me. Like, are you okay? And I'm like, no, you're busy. I'm like, you're amazing, you're doing podcasts and stuff. She was just like, if you don't call me, okay. Um, and I I needed that nudge because it's very hard for me to ask for help. Um also because my my standard is being in survival mode. And so I took her up on the offer, and it was so timely. One of the first questions that she asked me was okay, if outside of you know, your background and policy and government, if you could create a life, what would that look like? And I really had to dig back to like when in my life I um like I like I um I buried my passions and my interests, and that would have been some time after high school, actually, transitioning into undergrad. I actually wanted to become a fashion designer, I was in love with the arts, and um I remember telling my very loving and African father that I wanted to study fashion, and he was just like, that's cute. I'm not the coins aren't going there, but uh policy, government sounds great. So, pretty much after my father kind of voluntary what I was going to be majoring in, I genuinely just dug a treasure chest of all of the things that brought me joy. And um that included things like the arts. And it wasn't until reconnecting with Belinda that and just sitting there within FMLA, having nothing, being afraid of losing everything, and also not feeling well physically, where I I told myself I need to pretty much dig up that treasure chest. And within it, there certainly were, you know, sketches um of I could see just sketches of you know designer designer um sketches of designer clothes that I would uh be launching or showing at Fashion Week somewhere around the world, um tickets to museums, also um, you know, probably active wear because I love being in nature. It's very much my happy place, and all of these other interests. And I gave myself permission to accept that which I had never done before because I was honestly trying to live out and appease and you know wanted my family and loved ones to be proud of me, and I didn't want to let them down. And since then I'm so grateful for that jolt in my life professionally that felt like everything was being taken away because it it brought me back to acknowledging that I also deserve joy. I also deserve rest and we have one life, and I also deserve to kind of for the first time in my life put myself first um outside of a lot of the family commitments that um I've had since you know I was a kid. I pushed myself a little further and I created a joy list that I made in, I made in like online for free, where I wrote out both free things, um, some things that kind of I could, if I had like an extra$20, I could do on there. It's like trip to Glenstone Museum. Uh it's a local museum in Potomac, Maryland. That I go there and I I dream and I'm inspired. And it's beautiful, and all I see are just hills. Um, and then also it's like writing letters. I love writing letters to friends and others that are, you know, not in Virginia and just checking up on them in kind of that old school way. And so this list has kind of helped anchor me when honestly, well this list has helped anchor me in times just like this where it's easy for me and my mind to wander, wander, it's easy for me to want it's easy for me to sorry um during a time like this where it's easy for uh me to uh kind of go back from zero to a hundred really quickly and automatically feel as if I failed. Um and also it kind of helps recenter me to just remember that I've also given my all to everything that I do. And I again I also deserve in my life, even if it's at 35, um some of those things such as joy. Um, so yeah. Sorry, that was like all over the place.
SPEAKER_00:No, that was perfect. It was authentically you. And I just want to repeat back some of the things that I heard that that really resonated with me. I heard you talk about the weight of responsibilities and expectations that you felt from friends and family. And I I heard you mention that you felt for a long time that you were just kind of in survival mode and that you were just kind of doing what was expected, but that as you have come to greater awareness about what brings you joy when your authentic self is rooted in the arts, it is rooted in fashion. Um, you've come to accept that about yourself. And I loved how you said that you um deserve joy and you deserve rest. And rest is something that came up in in in a recent episode we had as well, our episode with uh Dr. Kimmy and Monty Jackson. And you talked about putting yourself first. I love your joy list, something I haven't heard before, but I think that that is really exceptional and how it anchors you. So given that level of clarity that you have now, um, and being a little more conscious of what it is that you want, what is holding you back from reaching that and and why?
SPEAKER_02:That's a really great question. Um a lot of this comes from sorry. A lot of this comes from my formative years interculturally, where sometimes you're obsessed, but you know, you're not heard. Um also as I have parents that um immigrated here from West Africa. I never really felt as if I made the bar fully to make them a thousand percent proud of me. And so that read imposter syndrome. And I felt like I was always just running towards like, am I gonna get there? Like, is this the thing that's gonna say that? You know, they can say that I'm they're proud of me for. Um in hindsight, I have had to unpack how much that's actually hurt me. Um both professionally and personally. Um, when you think about, you know, oftentimes it's hard for me to advocate for myself. I naturally put others first, and I I do that with my whole heart. And it also makes me think of the community. And so a lot of that is connected to the treasure trust example that I shared a few minutes ago. And without cheerleaders and loved ones, um honestly affirming and celebrating me, even during seasons such as like when I was on FMLA and I couldn't, I had nothing to give, honestly. It was their voices, it was their calls, it was my niece's laughs that reminded me that I I'm not an imposter and that I'm no matter what happens, I'm gonna be loved. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:If I could jump in um and comment on what you said just now about having nothing to give, I can relate to that, especially when you are a type A personality and you're used to performing at a certain level, you're used to always being on, you're used to always doing, you're used to always delivering. It can be difficult to allow yourself to be vulnerable and to allow yourself to receive help and to receive love and to receive affirmation. You know, you mentioned that sometimes you felt that you were never meeting the mark of making your parents proud. And I wonder, as you reflect on your journey, if you're really being honest with yourself, have you given yourself the space to be humble enough to receive that affirmation? Even if they were in a position to give it to you, could you receive it?
SPEAKER_02:Right now I would say yes. Um and that ties back to again when I was in a season where I couldn't produce anything or I couldn't send money or help a sibling. Um they still showed up. And they reminded me of what I had done professionally and on a personal level, you know, doing the work, going to therapy, um, really trying to unpack some of these things. And so yeah, that would be my answer.
SPEAKER_01:I also love the example that you gave of the treasure chest, because I could picture in my mind like you looking through a chest filled with jewels, filled with treasures, filled with special abilities that are unique to a fua. And as you think about building your confidence, especially in a moment like this where there are so many forces that are conspiring to tear us down, quite frankly. I wonder, you know, when you look through your treasure chest and you've had some time to reflect on who a Fua is, what is your genius?
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Um thank you for allowing me the space to further up.
unknown:I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you for creating the space where I even can say this verbally for the longest time. I was even afraid to just say these things that I'm even good at. I would ask everybody else, please, what am I good at? And through uh things like coaching, again, doing the work and therapy and things of that nature, I am now able to say that I am absolutely in love with creative directing. I uh love innovating, I love I love improving company culture and improving community. And all of those things kind of go back to what I was surrounded um by when I was a kid. So whether it's a new team, whether it is, you know, a community member, thinking back to how uh important and critical leaning on community was when sometimes my family didn't have anything and what made those times bearable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, that's very helpful. And I want you to know that, like, you know, just based on my experience, even working with you, and you are creative, you are innovative, right? Um, you really do add positively to the culture of wherever you are. So you have those skills and spades, and um and you are also in such a wonderful space, and that you are now clear on what it is that drives you, what brings you joy, right? What skills you bring to the table and where you want to take that. Um it's so hard to get there. And you've done the work and it shows. And I think that um and it takes a lot of bravery to get there, a lot of courage. And so I hope that that's what our audience takes away is that it is okay to dream, right? It is okay to hope, it is okay to really understand, like no one's going to love you less for being the person you were truly supposed to be and doing the things that you were truly supposed to be doing. Uh as I have made pivots in my own life, no one has said, Glenn, I can't be your friend anymore because you don't do that thing I you were doing when I met you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And I think, particularly here in the DMV, we're in a pretty pretty intense competitive environment focused on prestige. And no one has has said that they love meaning less. So um, I want to thank you for your continued courage and coming in here and sharing your journey with us. Uh, it truly has been insightful, and I know that it's helping me to step into this next week, feeling even more hopeful and even more optimistic, and even more focused on the idea of being laser focused on my dreams and reaching them. Shelby, any thoughts before we let Afua go?
SPEAKER_01:No, I really appreciate your honesty and vulnerability. And I'm glad that you took advantage of the space that we created here on the podcast. That's really what Belinda Belinda and I try to do um every week with a broader audience. Um, but we decided, you know, to take this risk, quite frankly, in talking to you and and kind of live coaching you um as part of our shutdown series, just because we thought, you know, let's put our let's put our gifts into action and talk to someone who is going through you know pivots and And has gone through a journey of self-discovery. So we really, really appreciate everything that you had to share with us tonight. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. And I would encourage our listeners to take Afua's example and wisdom of having a moment to look through your own treasure chest. Use this moment of the shutdown, particularly for our listeners who are affected by the furlough. What is within your own treasure chest? What are some of the things that you have buried beneath that are worth resurrecting? And how can you use your gifts in a time when things feel bleak and dark? How can you bring light to a dark situation? How can you use your own treasures for good? So thanks everyone again for joining us for this special episode of the Leadership Tea. We invite you to leave us some feedback. Please share this episode with others. If you have found it insightful, we really appreciate this community and we look forward to chatting with you again real soon.
