Leadership Tea
On Leadership Tea, we talk about what it takes to reach the executive level, and how to thrive when you get there. Powerful leaders share their journeys, insights, and triumphs in conversations with hosts Shelby Smith-Wilson and Belinda Jackson Farrier.
Join us every other Wednesday to be inspired by the unvarnished stories of amazing executives who know what it's like to be "the only" at the table and who have succeeded regardless. They have proven leadership experience in their respective fields, from international affairs to the private sector to academia, and want to help others create their own success stories.
Leadership Tea
Failure Isn't Final: Turning Setbacks Into Comebacks | S4 EP17
A layoff can feel like a verdict. We treat it as a turning point. In this candid conversation, we unpack what it means to “fail forward” when the spotlight is brightest and the Sunday Scaries won’t quit.
Shelby shares the raw aftermath of being laid off from a high-profile role and the unexpected freedom that came from choosing silence, setting boundaries, and designing a schedule that serves her.
Belinda digs into the shame loop many leaders fall into, why scapegoating thrives in political environments, and how reframing misalignment can restore agency and momentum.
Two questions anchor this episode: Who can you trust, and what are you willing to tolerate? Whether you’re processing a layoff, questioning a misaligned role, or trying to end the Sunday Scaries, these strategies help you regain control of your time, your message, and your outcomes.
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Welcome to the Leadership Tea Podcast, where we talk about what it takes to get to the executive level and then how to thrive once you're there. Today we are going to focus in on an issue that we think is very relevant to our series on Sunday Scaries. That is that failure, which many of us experience, isn't final. It's an opportunity to turn setbacks into comebacks. And so during this episode, we're going to talk about some of the failures that we've experienced. We're going to talk about the lessons that we've learned from those and also some of the comebacks from those as well that we are kind of experiencing now. So with that, I just want to remind you before I turn things over to Shelby that if you are listening to us on audio to come join us on YouTube, or if you're watching on YouTube, please like and subscribe so that we can get our content out to as many people as possible. We really are excited about reaching a wide audience. So we thank you for that. And uh with that said, Shelby, I'm interested in hearing a little bit about your thoughts on today's topic.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, when I think about failure and the phrase failing forward, the first thing that comes to mind, honestly, Belinda, is an experience that I'm still experiencing right now, which is the aftermath of being laid off. You know, I think at the moment that I was laid off, one of the things that I feared most, which is I think is it is natural for anyone, is what will people think? You know, will people think of me differently? Will people judge me? You know, how do I control the rumors? How do I shape the narrative of what's happening? And how do I manage my own personal disappointment that I was not able to control the ending of my career the way that I wanted to? But as I reflect more on that failure, you know, one of the things that that strikes me about people who are in senior leadership positions, you don't have the luxury of failing loudly because the spotlight is on you and people are watching your every move. And as the layoff was happening, it actually caused me to think about my trajectory in the final years of my career at the State Department, where I was in very high-profile roles, very visible roles, where anything that I did, how how I carried myself, how I responded to pressure, was on a public display at all times. And this was no different. This was no different. You know, how I reacted to the layoff, I know was was being scrutinized and that people were watching to see how I would respond, you know, to this very public failure, if you will. And, you know, in that process of really managing myself, I had to train myself to do things that were contrary to how I operate. And I'll give an example. You know, I was getting a lot of text messages, a lot of emails, people were reaching out, asking, how was I doing? Was it true? What was going on? You know, what did the future hold for me? Lots of questions that I I just was not prepared to answer. And in that moment, I had to make a decision on whether I needed to respond to those emails. You know, did I owe people an explanation right away? And I'm thankful that I decided not to be trigger happy when it comes to you know responding to people right away, because I'm sure I may have said some things that I might have later regretted. Um, and I really just needed that time to take a beat, to take a breath. And as I think about this series of, you know, how do you manage your anxiety heading into Sunday, the Sunday scaries, you know, oftentimes as leaders, that anxiety builds because as you're thinking of your mental checklist, you're thinking of all the people that you owe a response to or all the emails that are piling up, and how do you triage those emails uh so that you're not completely overwhelmed? And that was the same sensation that I felt, you know, as I was managing this failure. And I really had to hold back and decide who deserves a response from me right now? And do I need to feel this pressure, this anxiety, this this fear of not responding and letting people create their own narratives, potentially, you know, that was a risk that I took. But ultimately, it helped me in the healing process to really be able to take some time and define how do I want to respond to all the various inquiries about what happened and where was I gonna go, et cetera. And I think as I'm as I'm managing this pivot from public service into entrepreneurship, you know, one of the things, one of the things that used to bother me, you know, on Sundays heading into the week was this lack of control over my schedule. Like Monday is gonna be crazy, there's gonna be, you know, a lot of unexpected, unfinished business that, you know, my boss or my boss's boss will expect me to complete, and a bunch of things are gonna land on my desk. Well, fortunately, I don't have to deal with that anymore. I have a new perspective on managing my schedule. I get to set my schedule, I get to determine the drumbeat and the pace, you know, that I want my Monday to to take and the rest of the week. And so in a in an odd way, I don't really have the Sunday scaries anymore. And you know, this this public failure, this the failure that I experienced of being laid off has just it's had a lot of mixed, a lot of mixed blessings, if you will. Um and I think the biggest, the biggest lesson for me is is really knowing that I can control how and when I respond. And I would leave that with with our listeners, with with the executives who are listening to to this. Just a reminder that you don't have to be so quick to respond to every email. That's not to say that you shouldn't, you know, be communicative because you want to be timely in your responses, of course. But be strategic in how and when and who you respond to and how you prioritize the order in which you get back to people. That was a small measure that actually helped me deal with my own healing from my failure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I think that what you've said here, this idea of like control and being strategic and also giving yourself some grace, right? And giving and and not letting the baggage kind of stack up on you is really critical to navigating periods like this. I've heard from so many um friends across sectors who faced layoffs and they feel like it's a failure on their part. And I don't know, I I I just I feel like there's a failure there, but it's on the part of the organization, right? Um, one, often it's a part of the organization because of how they handle it. But also, if we got to the point where you aren't making money or there's waste, fraud, and abuse, or like whatever, that's not your fault, that's theirs. And they should there's there should be some other way to deal with it without breaking people in this way. But that that's a long way of saying that this isn't you, you are great, right? You know, and I say that to anyone who's facing a layoff right now. You you've done your part, and so you're you have great skills, and it's really about deciding where you're gonna put that energy, where is it gonna be appreciated, where you're gonna plant your seed so that it can grow into a garden. Um, yeah, I definitely see that in you. Yeah, no, I agree with what you definitely what you've said there. I think for me, um this uh these ideas come down to you know, shame and scars, like we were talking about earlier. That I have found myself in positions where I felt like the the mistakes I was making, the failures I was having, which were very public because of my role, they just created a cycle of shame, which caused a cycle of continuing to make errors and mistakes, et cetera, and to begin to believe and to internalize that shame and to internalize the mistakes. When, and I know it's just so easy to get into a cycle where you believe that you're the bad employee, you're wrong, you're doing something, but if you were able to step back and to see that um maybe you're just misaligned in your role, maybe this is not a place for you, or um maybe this is the office politics, right? Or trusting the wrong people coming at you and they're basically gaslighting you. So I think when I look back on those situations, that's often what was happening to me. So I I was not really at fault, nothing was really wrong, but someone had to be the scapegoat. I was, and since I was the only in many respects, then it was easy to make me the scapegoat. Um, and so that is something that I've I've had to be more cognizant of um as I've you know looked at other roles and saying that, like, okay, this time around, I I really know, I know my value, I know what I'm capable of, I know games are coming, right? We're getting into the season for reindeer games. I know the reindeer games are coming and I'm I'm ready for them and I'm ready to take them on, unfortunately, right? Like we have to have a battle. And then, you know, I've also thought about how when I think about the scars side of it, it's that I have reached a point where, again, because I I see my value, I know what I'm capable of. My tolerance for leadership that I disagree with is low. It's low. Once you've had a taste of power and you didn't completely F it up, your ability to navigate and negotiate with, you know, even more senior people who just you're just like, How did you get here? Yeah, um, it's just that is low. Uh my willingness to express dissent and then walk away is also low. And so, like understanding that, and so that has created some failures, right? Because I am not able to um really be a team player in a leadership structure that I fundamentally cannot agree with, right? And and so that that that is but that's part of the arrangement of working somewhere, like so the failures on my part, right? But it also brings clarity. It's like, okay, cool. Oh, I see. I don't like to operate in an environment where I can't always respect what's going on. So I need to be more mindful about as I choose opportunities or build what I'm building, that I am cognizant of who will I be working with? Who will I be working for? That is probably the most important thing to me right now, yeah. You know, right after compensation, right? Like, I know that's right. Okay, now we can talk. Are y'all crazy? Like, okay, cool. Um, so it's my tolerance is low for that, so so controlling for that, and also controlling for um will my voice be respected? Will I be able to have influence? I and I understand if I need to build influence and play politics, etc. But will will it ultimately have make a difference? If not, if I'm just I'm just here for decoration, that isn't gonna be a tolerable space for me. Um, and then finally, carrying the baggage of the past, right? I had to let some of these like experiences go. Yeah, I wasn't the bad guy there. No one was really the bad guy. I was just misaligned over here, or I was just uh just wasn't a good fit there, or or or just something bad happened. I couldn't have controlled that. I need to let that go because when I'm carrying that with me, like, oh, I'm the only in the room, I messed up the thing. Now I messed it up for everybody, like I can't sleep at night, like that's not helping anyone. So I've had to let learn to let that kind of baggage go as well. And so that clarity, that for the first time, understanding boundaries. Like, actually, no, I'm not like I I've put in the time, I've done the work, and unless it's a real emergency, I'm not gonna pick up the phone at like midnight. I but I'm grown and I understand the difference between a real emergency and like your personal preference. And again, it goes back to making sure that I'm choosing opportunities and places that align with what I can work with, with the leadership structure that I can work with now. Um, so those are like some of the big things. And so the question is like, how do I implement that? Like, how do I do that? And you know, I was thinking back to like again, when I can get out of the headspace of just like life is happening to me, and this is a horrible thing, and I got, I don't know what to do. I don't know up from down, these people are playing with me. You have to find a way to snap out of that, either with a therapist or with a coach or somebody to help you step out of that swirl once in a while and say to yourself, okay, what's important to me? Like, what's important? What is realistic in the situation that I'm in? Who can I ally with, if anyone, to get it done? Right. And so therefore, what like what's possible? Like, what are we doing? And decisions need to be made accordingly. That is how I have tried in the past to turn, and sometimes that means I'm leaving, yeah. Right. And um, sometimes that means I'm transferring, sometimes that means um having like a heart to heart with somebody, like, hey yo, like this isn't sustainable, let's talk about XYZ. Um, and having those difficult conversations, but I guess my bottom line is I have I now understand that it's important to think about like what's the outcome that I want, and to believe that I can make that outcome happen. Politics, it might mean, you know, some memos, it might mean whatever but I should know what I want, and I'm grown enough and experienced enough to make it happen.
SPEAKER_01:That's the critical piece of believing that you can create the outcome that you want. And I think the other two pieces that you mentioned that really resonate for me is it's really two questions, two questions to to ask yourself as you're experiencing this the Sunday scaries and and trying to shift that into being more strategic. Who can you trust and what are you willing to tolerate? Who can you trust and what are you willing to tolerate? That is the bluff. That is the bottom line up front.
SPEAKER_00:That's the bottom line. That's those those are really intense questions because sometimes the answer is no one.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Um and that's when you have to start making some hard decisions.
SPEAKER_01:There it is. There it is. Well, with that said, I think that's a lovely note to wrap up this episode in terms of you know giving giving you all some real meat to to chew on when it comes to learning from your failures, not being afraid to fail, but also asking yourself critical questions in terms of how do you want to show up for yourself? How do you manage failure for yourself without worrying about what other people are saying or thinking? And I know that's much easier said than done, but I'm living it. I'm living it. Belinda is living it right now. You know, what are you willing to tolerate? What is the leadership structure that you can live with that you respect in order to be your best self, in order to be the best leader, entrepreneur, person, whatever it is that you're trying to do, what are you willing? What are you ready to tolerate? And just understanding that, you know, everyone is not your friend, and you can't trust in many instances, there are very few people, if anyone, that you can trust in your executive circles. You know, how do you how do you deal with that? How do you manage that? Those are critical questions that obviously we can't answer for you in this brief episode, but we challenge you to to think about that as you're managing these Sunday scaries and thinking about how to be strategic. Really reflect on some of the points that we've made here in this episode. And if you want more from the Leadership Tea, we invite you to join us in the Leadership Lounge. This is an initiative that we have just launched in November. You can find out more information by going to our website at www.sturingsuccess.com slash leadership lounge. This is an intimate space that we have created for people who want a little bit more unfiltered tea from me and Belinda. We have created a group coaching session that we host once a month. We have additional leadership resources, we have a private chat where people really have the opportunity to ask us whatever it is that's on their minds in an environment that is safe and free from judgment. So if this is something that appeals to you, we invite you to join us. It's less than the cost of a latte. So please check us out if you're interested. And we invite you to subscribe to us on our YouTube channel if you haven't already. Please leave us some feedback. We'd love to hear from you. We respond to those emails. We really appreciate this community, and we look forward to sipping wisdom and stirring success with you again, real soon.
