Choosing Yourself at Work: Skill Security, Power & Leadership

Cathy Duffy joins us to explore redefining power at work, building skill security, and choosing yourself as a leader in today’s evolving workplace.

In the Season 5 premiere of The Leadership Tea Podcast, Cathy reflects on leadership from inside complex organizations, sharing hard-earned insights on compensation, identity beyond titles, and why job security is no longer enough. She challenges leaders to focus on skill security, generosity, and self-trust, especially in moments of transition or uncertainty.

This conversation is a reminder that leadership unfolds in seasons, and that choosing yourself is not selfish, but essential to sustaining impact, clarity, and purpose at work.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Skill security vs. job security
• Under-compensation and knowing your value
• Separating identity from titles and roles
• Redefining power as flexibility and “power with”
• Why happiness is fleeting — and what to pursue instead
• Choosing yourself without guilt at different life stages

The SafeWork Advantage Podcast
Most workplaces react to violence—SafeWork Advantage shows employers how to prevent it.

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Chapters

• 0:01 Setting The Stage: Beyond The C-Suite
• 1:47 Kathy’s Year Of Exploration
• 3:30 Pay Gaps, Worth, And Walking Away
• 7:34 Identity Beyond Titles
• 9:50 Skill Security Over Job Security
• 12:00 Legacy Thinking And The Infinite Game
• 16:21 Sponsor Message: SDFCU
• 16:59 When Success Doesn’t Feel Happy
• 18:38 [Ad] The SafeWork Advantage Podcast
• 19:19 (Cont.) When Success Doesn’t Feel Happy
• 21:08 Power As Flexibility And Surrender
• 23:45 Choosing Yourself Without Guilt
• 27:44 Parenting, Tech, And Trust
• 34:29 Closing Gratitude And CTA

Transcript

Kathy’s Year Of Exploration

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Leadership Tea Podcast, where we talk about not only what it takes to reach the executive level, but how to thrive once you get there. We are so focused on climbing the ladder of success, but we rarely discuss what happens once you get there. Life happens in cycles, and it's not possible to be happy all the time. The focus should be on skill security and not job security. Power looks like flexibility. Don't be embarrassed to choose yourself. These are some of the themes and the questions that Belinda and I discussed today with our amazing guest, Kathy Duffy. You may recall that Kathy was our very first guest on our very first episode of the Leadership Tea Podcast, where she talked about radical redesign and reimagining your future. And in season three, that kicked off 2025 for the Leadership Tea Podcast, where she talked about taking your power back after a forced pivot. This episode is no exception. Kathy shares amazing wisdom and insights on how she is defining this next chapter of her life. So grab a notepad, get that favorite cup of tea or coffee. You're going to want to take some notes on this episode. So let's get into it. Kathy, thank you so much for joining us again for this episode of the Leadership Tea Podcast. I want to remind our viewers that the last time that we spoke with you, we talked about your forced pivot. And before that, we talked about radical redesign and reimagining your future. And so it's a year later, after your pivot. And we want to kick off this conversation by just asking you, where are you now? What's going on?

Pay Gaps, Worth, And Walking Away

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Thank you, Shelby and Belinda, for once again having me on the podcast. I feel like I'm growing up with the two of you and expanding by the minute. Where am I now? I am still in the police because I deem 2025 my year of execution. I think we had that conversation. And I've realized now that execution doesn't necessarily mean that you're stepping into your power, but the year of execution, what I'm realizing is the time for me to look at all the variables that are possible for me. And then for 2026, I'll start making some decisions. So 2025 has really been my time of exploring, of resting, of reflecting, of learning, of just being in nature so much. You know, the majority of the year I was in a learning environment at Oxford University, just testing all of my perspectives, listening to other perspectives, trying to figure out where I can be of service, trying to figure out how I can move forward in kindness, sharing my wisdom, my knowledge, and still need to earn money. So let's not get that twisted. Um, you know, it's so interesting because some people think that because of my position, because of my title, because of the stature that I've held, that I'm much wealthier than I am. And that is a fallacy that I wish people understood more, because black women in general don't get the large compensation and the large bonuses to the extent that some of our other counterparts do. But at the same time, we just keep going. We just keep doing because we have to keep the dual prompt open.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

I agree with you wholeheartedly on that idea, that question of compensation. And as I look back at you know, my career, I see in every move I've made, I have not been compensated properly from the start. Yes. And thus I am constantly behind. Yes. And I think for a large part of my career, I just felt thankful to even have offers, thankful to even be offered something. Uh and I think if I were to give myself advice about the past or to think about how I'll position myself in the future, it's really standing firmly in that sense of value and sense of what the market, even what the market demands. Yeah. And and fully knowing that like I'm worthy of the proper compensation and more. Right. So it's like, what do I think I get? And I should probably add 20% to that.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Yeah. And the thing that we as Black women often face is the labels that we get attached to us that we're too aggressive, we're too ambitious, we're troublemakers, we're this, we're that. So we start to shrink ourselves a bit from that because you you you just want to get in there and make a difference. And also the thing that we have to be brave enough to do is walk away from something if we're not getting the package that we know that we deserve. Some people aren't in that position to do that. But as you said, where you start is where you're always going to be from a salary perspective. You may get bumps here and there, but where you start will always be your determining factor for how you move forward. I mean, I just found out yesterday that somebody was being interviewed for a role, and the comp that they were being offered at two levels down from where I was was almost equal to the salary that I had. And it got you, right? Because you think, wow, I had all this to offer. Everybody looks to me for this trailblazer to give them advice, and yet my comp was terrible. Then I had to talk to myself and I had to say to myself, yes, but because you started so long ago, you were the one who enabled that person to get that package, even though you don't have it. So then I go back to some of our trailblazers who say what trailblazers do, often they don't see the benefit of, but they are giving, opening the door for others. So I have to talk to myself about that. But as I move forward now, I have to really think about how I'm positioning myself because of that. Because once again, I'm moving to another stage where I will be trailblazing, and what will that look like for me?

Identity Beyond Titles

SPEAKER_00 7:34

So, as you think about your next stage and you reflect a little bit on what you achieved and where you've been and all the things that you've done, how are you able to separate your identity from the achievements and get back to the fundamentals of who you are as you think about who you're going to become?

Skill Security Over Job Security

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Oh, that's so easy for me. My identity and the public persona, there is no difference between us. Like I am all of these things, and my identity is not wrapped around a title, is not wrapped around a position. So that if those things go away, yes, it might hurt for five minutes because I'm human, but I'm taking all of me to the next thing. And I think the problem for a lot of people is you think that you're defined by a role, you're defined by the a company you work for, when in fact you're you're defined by who you are at your core. And that way no one can ever take that from you. I was at this amazing event the other day. My sorority was invited to assist these university students who put on a session for high school students or people that were interested in going to university for the first time. And they talked about, you know, university life and your expectations. And there was this young lady that was there, and you know what she said to people? I don't like, why am I learning from this 21-year-old, 22-year-old? But this is how life is, right? Like when you're open, you get nuggets from everywhere. She had this slide up that said it's not about job security anymore. She had a big line through job, and she said, it's about skill security, such that if you lose your job, your skill set is always marketable. And I was like, Whoa, here's a 21-year-old who's already sussed that out. And I'm like, you know what? And here's why they've had to do that. They've watched their parents lose jobs, they've watched people that they admire be pushed out. So they're like, job security? Nope, skill security. And she also said, I'm I still have chill bums from this conversation. She also said, make sure you have something on the side you're building for yourself. This is a 21-year-old, and she's doing like this mentoring business to help people get through university. Simple stuff, but impactful. We're always looking for like this mega stuff when in fact it's the simple, necessary skill set building that we can always help people with. I was like, I don't know why people are saying that these young people have no oomph. They do. They do, they know exactly what they're doing. I was so blown away by that young lady. I was actually blown away by the five of them that put this event together to think that they are sharing their experiences to make it easier for somebody else. Imagine if we all did that. How much fear will be taken out, how many opportunities we would actually present for ourselves. Because I volunteered to go and do that ushering. I didn't have to do it. I could have thought it was beneath me. Look what I got out of that. And so I just think that when you limit yourself to an identity that can be taken away from you, that's what crushes you. But when you recognize your identity is much bigger than any role, you can move on with that skill security that we all have.

Legacy Thinking And The Infinite Game

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah, if 2025 taught us anything, it's that no job is secure. Yeah. So, yes, her point on skill security over job security. I think we learned that in spades. And especially about artificial intelligence and all of these other technological tools that put our livelihoods, all of our livelihoods, at risk if we don't focus on having a specific skill set. Yeah, that's that's a word. And I appreciate everything you said about 2025 being a year of execution and exploring and learning. Clearly, you know, you learned from this 21-year-old at this conference that you attended, and something else that you said that struck me about not being attached to titles and positions. I think we spend so much of our careers focused on climbing and figuring out what it means to be successful, but we rarely spend time to think about legacy, as you mentioned, you know, being a trailblazer, what does that mean? And what is it that we're doing to set up the people behind us to be successful? And I wonder why do you think it is that we don't talk about this stage of leadership in terms of, you know, what comes after we have reached that pinnacle of success?

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Most people don't think it's ever going to end. So, you know, because everyone, everything right now is so short-sighted, most people don't think about what the long-term implications of anything. Most people are so self-centered that they don't think about the fact that eventually this is gonna come to an end. And what will you do after that? Because everything comes to an end. And most people also believe that they're gonna control that ending, and oftentimes you don't if you put yourself in a position that you're beholding to somebody else's dream. And when you work for a company that's outside of your own company, that's not your dream, that's somebody else's dream. And that dream can even change according to who the CEOs are, who the board is. So it's an ever-moving target. So people don't have the opportunity to think about legacy, because most times people are terrified that they're not gonna have a job tomorrow, right? So they're so focused on just keeping their head down and doing what they have to do and being afraid to share that information with people in case that person takes something from them without realizing that when we share, we actually learn so much more because people open up. But when we hoard, people it's like everyone becomes stuck. And um, you know, we're so much better as a collective than we are as individuals when we're trying to create because we need that yin-yang, you know, but it frightens a lot of us. So I always go back to to Simon Sinek's book, The Infinite Game. I don't know if you've ever read that book, but it's a it's an old book. Um, well, not that old, it's probably about six or seven years old. And he talks about the fact that we don't live as if we're passing things on. We live in such a finite way of existence that it doesn't matter if we're blowing up everything around us, just as long as we're getting what we need in that moment. So that's why it's so difficult for people to even think about legacy. But I go back to my girl Beyonce all the time. Um, you know, one of my mantras is her song, two songs of hers in We're part of something way bigger. And I was here, footprints in the sand, right? And how we're supposed to be thinking all the time about what we're leaving behind and not just what we can take.

When Success Doesn’t Feel Happy

SPEAKER_01 16:21

We are proud to be sponsored by State Department Federal Credit Union, a financial institution built around the realities of global service and frequent relocation. From competitive lending and rewards credit cards to international money management through WISE, SDFCU provides reliable financial access wherever members are posted. Learn more about their global banking solutions at SDFCU.org. State Department Federal Credit Union is federally insured by the National Credit Union Administration and is an equal housing lender. Membership and product eligibility is subject to approval.

[Ad] The SafeWork Advantage Podcast

SPEAKER_00 17:19

It came to my attention once I left government that everyone around me had something on the side, thought it was silly to depend on an organization. And when I reflected also back on my government experience, I realized that there were many people around me who perhaps they weren't able because of rules to build an economic fortune. They were building a thought leadership. Absolutely. They were writing articles, they were writing books, they were, you know, putting out art, they were, they were doing something and building that expertise. And I just didn't. I just thought that like if I just gave 100% to this organization, obviously I'm just this is the legacy that I leave. This is where it ends for me. I'm curious to know, you know, you've talked a little bit about the importance of kind of framing your career in terms of that text. For people who feel guilty, they've they've reached a high level and they're supposed to be happy, but they're not, and they haven't built this external infrastructure that we've just talked about. What would be your advice to that person that feels the pressure to be happy, but they aren't, and they know there's something else out there for them, but they're they're still a little afraid to go after it?

Power As Flexibility And Surrender

SPEAKER_02 19:12

First of all, I I wish that we would get away from this notion that we should be happy all the time. It's not possible. Just not possible, right? Happiness is fleeting. But what you want is to have the ability to pivot in those days of darkness because you're going to confront darkness. And that's just something. Um, there's there's like a toxic positivity that's happening right now, so that people who are feeling sad, depressed, or disappointed um are thinking something's wrong with them because they should be happy all the time, particularly people that are quite successful materially, and that's the problem, right? Um, material, you can get as much money as you want, you can get as much prestige, you can get as much power. We we see this playing out on the global stage. People that are exceedingly wealthy are some of the most unhappy people ever because they do not believe that they are going to keep that wealth. They probably haven't earned it. They're afraid that someone's going to come and take it from them and they don't share. I'm telling you, reciprocity, sharing, generosity, even generosity more than reciprocity. Because reciprocity is almost like as if you're expecting something in return. Whereas if you're generous with your knowledge and you're doing it out of a place of kindness, that will multiply. Right. Um, and so those people that are feeling very unhappy despite their success, they need to figure out what it is within them that they're not tending to. And the ways that you can do that are so simple. And I do it every single day. Just go in nature. Just be in nature. Give yourself some space, some time to think, to reflect. Give yourself and and journal. If you no one has to see that journal, it's amazing the stuff that comes out when you freehand, not typing on a computer either. Like when you freehand um the stuff that that comes to light that you didn't even really know was there. And until you confront all of those things and also know that everything comes in cycles, that you're not going to be up all the time and have a gratitude practice. I've said that over and over again. That is like key. Because gratitude, and some people think that gratitude is um overplayed as well. And they they think that if you're a person that's grief or a person that meditate meditates, a person that journals that you're never supposed to be unhappy. No, you are. It just gives you skills to deal with those feelings so you get through them. So I I recommend for people um don't even try to be happy all the time. Just find try to find joy, try to find awe, try to find wonder, and that will shift the way that you are. And that's just simply going outside and looking to nature or something that you love.

Choosing Yourself Without Guilt

SPEAKER_01 22:36

I think that's a really key lesson. What you mentioned about happiness being fleeting and that it's not possible to be happy all the time. That's something that I've been talking to my kids about because I think, especially now, where social media dominates everything, and I can't keep them off of whatever it is that they're looking at on their phones. But I do try to tell them that a lot of what you're seeing is curated. It's not real. And all these people who look, you know, happy, joyful, living their best lives, you know, buying all the things that they want, they're probably in debt. You know, they're going on all these trips and you know, taking these lovely photos, like you have no idea what's going on in their home life. And as you said, Kathy, like what's what's going on internally that driving them to do whatever it is that they're doing, you know, it's not it's not a hundred percent real. And, you know, keeping it all the way 100 about 2025 was a hard year. Yeah. For everyone, unhappy, unhappy moments. Like, I'm not gonna sugarcoat and act like, yeah, it was great. We did a lot of good things. Like, yes, there were some high moments, but honestly, there were more low moments than there were high moments. And I think, you know, all the advice that you've shared about being in nature and journaling, that those are things that we have reiterated to our listeners and to our clients that we coach. And I really love what you said about sharing generosity because it it just reinforces our strong belief that living in scarcity is just it's a losing prospect. And to the extent that you can share generosity and not think that it's a zero-sum game, totally. It just makes such a difference. And I think it's it's a good segue to something that I've been dying to ask you about. Um, because in our last episode, you talked about taking your power back and owning power after you're forced to pivot. And I wonder now, as you think about where you are going into 2026, what does power look like for you in this moment, now that you are choosing your next moves, as opposed to being subjected to you know the urgency of what it was like to be in the C-suite in the private sector? What does power look like for you right now?

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Power to me looks like flexibility. It looks like having the strength, the wisdom to use my voice where necessary to have choices. And also I uh and I don't remember if we talked about this the last time. Um I do not believe in power over anymore. It's all about power with. We cannot build anything on our own at all. We all need each other or some sort of support system to help us. So power to me is knowing that I have so much to share, and when I share, I will gain so much more, and I don't go into it with the expectation of gaining so much more, but I go into it knowing that the more I share, the more it multiplies. So power is not about control, it's actually about surrender.

Parenting, Tech, And Trust

SPEAKER_00 26:39

There's a vulnerability that required to move forward. Yes. Vulnerability and curiosity are just so important at this point in your journey. Yeah. So, Kathy, as we look to close the episode and we reflect on many of the lessons you've shared today, I'm wondering what does choosing yourself look like now? And how is that choice different than it was earlier in your career?

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Well, I never chose myself early in my career because, you know, as women, black women, we were always taught that we were supposed to take care of everyone else, that we were supposed to put ourselves last, that we were supposed to keep our heads down, not create any trouble and just do what we're supposed to do. So I was embarrassed a lot of times to choose myself because that meant that I was selfish, that meant that I was ambitious, that meant that I didn't care about anyone else in my early years. But now I know more than ever, if I don't choose myself, I can't choose anybody else. I can't make any choices because I'll be making choices based on what other people expect, not on what I have to offer and to give. So I choose myself every second, every minute, every hour of the day, because then I'm replenishing me in order to be able to give to others. And I have no qualms with saying no to people. I have no qualms with um, just like I'm I'm pretty grateful that I have a husband that I do who gives me wings when I need them. Um, because so many people when I went to Oxford were like, well, what does your husband think about all of this? And I said, the wonderful thing about my husband and I is that he gives me the he knows that I need to build to myself back up and I need to do these things. And if I don't, it'd probably make life pretty difficult for him too. So you know, so he he gives me, he gives, allows me the wings that he knows that I'm going to need to in order to flourish. And we always come back to each other, and I'm grateful um that I have I'm in a relationship like that, that we trust each other, not saying that we put um barriers on each other, but we trust each other and see where it lands. But I choose myself all the time, all the time, and I think it helps when your children are a little older as well. Yes, 100%. I I just want to clarify that for a woman, actually. I just thought about that. When you have young children, your choices will be your children, yeah. You will make choices based on your children, yeah. That is okay. There is a season for everything, and that's what I say to people. Don't, for those women that are listening to this, I'm gonna clarify this now. Don't think you have if you're not choosing yourself right now and you're choosing your children, you're doing something wrong. You're not. There will be some women that can choose themselves, even with young children, or children that still rely on them. My children are 26 and 22. They're gone. So they're adults. So now it's about me again. Right. And you know, it's um pouring back into me. Because I definitely chose my children over and over and over again. Um, and I think just that's just something that the majority of women will do. But when you can give yourself the opportunity to do things for yourself, do so with no regrets, right? Yeah, don't be embarrassed to choose yourself. Don't be embarrassed to choose yourself. And and and here's the other thing: the people that give you a hard time about doing that are people that will never do it for themselves. People that have chosen themselves over and over again will applaud you because they know that in order for you to bring your best self to the world, you have to pour into yourself first. And then as mothers of young children, you're pouring into those children so that they can bring their best selves. But they also need to see you as mothers and as fathers doing things for yourself too. So they know it's okay for them to do it. Yeah. And Shelby, I just want to go back to the thing about children on phones and tablets and things like that, because there's a lot of push right now about making parents feel really bad that their children are spending time on computers or on phones and saying that we need to police them more. I just want to say that one of my biggest regrets was doing that with my son. Um, he is a computer programmer. And as his school was um starting, where he was on a laptop, it was when the phones really started to take off, gaming really started to take off. So I was really, really strict with my son um with computers. And I now know more than anything that when we restrict our children too much for anything, it becomes the forbidden fruit. Yeah. We need to be able to talk to them about what they're looking at, trust them as well. Um, because if you create these barriers or make them feel that we can't trust them, then they start hiding things from us. Yes. So I think we gotta give our children some grace. They're growing up in a completely different era from the era that we ever grew up in. And we can't hold them to standards that didn't exist in our days. And I I I listen to so many of these people that are coming on and talking about the damage that is doing to our children without thinking about the damage we're doing to them by not trusting them.

Closing Gratitude And CTA

SPEAKER_01 33:19

That part. Yeah, I agree fully with everything that you said because I know that I can't, I can't police my children 24-7. And I I don't want to, but you don't say is is so important. It's it's it's important to have the conversations and to communicate and to to guide. And what I'm really learning now is I'm trying to tell my son, especially, because he's the one who's who's usually on social media the most, to just have discernment, yeah, to be curious and to not, you know, take everything at face value, but to really question, you know, is this a reliable source of information? You know, to just be smart about the decisions that that he's making when he's, you know, consuming this information, uh as opposed to what what you said, which I can completely agree on, you know, in terms of just not I'm not taking the restrictive approach and saying, you know, you can't be on this and you can't be on that, but really just telling him to be thoughtful and to approach everything with a sense of intellectualism more than that.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

And I I think as long as parents were engaging our children in conversations, they're gonna make dumb decisions, just like we do, right? Um and they're still learning and exploring. But as long as we open the lines of communications for them, then they hopefully will not get pulled into situations that could lead them astray because they're looking for somewhere to voice their concerns. And that's what I'm most worried about that the more we tell them that it's terrible and the more we restrict them, will they because they're much better than we are with technology, they know the ins and outs much more than we do. Will we be encouraging them to end up being with some crazy person that will take advantage of them?

unknown 35:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

So I just think we need to keep the conversations open with our children so that they know that we're the safe space, not the internet.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah, I agree with both of you. I won't even get on my soapbox. Shelby knows I have passionate views on this topic, but you all have said exactly what I would have um suggested, which is you can't protect your kids from this. Other people's kids are on it. They're gonna they're talking about it at school, exactly. Talking about it on the bus. So instead, use it as opportunities for teachable conversations and keep the lines of communication open. You know, I constantly tell my daughter, like, somebody might try to do this, somebody might try to manipulate you in this way, or use AI this way, or da da da da da da, no matter what, bring it here. Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Like you can ask me anything, we can talk about it, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:17

So I think we have to give them some leeway. And I I regret being so strict with my son. Really, really regret it. And and I mean, look at him now. He's a programmer, yeah. Right. So he was actually testing out his skills all the time, which is what he used to tell us all the time, you know? So I just think we need to be a little careful with that um with our children.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Well, Kathy, I want to thank you for joining us again. Uh, this it feels like the annual download we get from you, we jumpstart the new year. Um, you've been with us from the beginning. We thank you for these words of wisdom. We look forward to seeing where 2026 will take you. Uh we're also we remain grateful for our audience. Uh, for those of you that are listening to us on audio, you know, you are missing Kathy's amazing look. Shelby's great background. Like, come over to YouTube and like and subscribe and follow us here. Uh, and uh as always, we look forward to future episodes where we will be sipping wisdom and stirring success with you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Thank you, and wishing everyone the best. Take care.