Leadership Tea
On Leadership Tea, we talk about what it takes to reach the executive level, and how to thrive when you get there. Powerful leaders share their journeys, insights, and triumphs in conversations with hosts Shelby Smith-Wilson and Belinda Jackson Farrier.
Join us every other Wednesday to be inspired by the unvarnished stories of amazing executives who know what it's like to be "the only" at the table and who have succeeded regardless. They have proven leadership experience in their respective fields, from international affairs to the private sector to academia, and want to help others create their own success stories.
Leadership Tea
Don’t Ghost Your Mentor -- and Other Rules for Mentees
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
We wrap the season by getting specific about what it means to be a good mentee, not just someone who wants access to a mentor. We share the habits that build real trust, the red flags that tell you to move on, and the practical ways to grow a “village” that supports your career and your life. We discuss issues such as:
• remembering you always have options beyond assigned pairings
• being in relationship with mentors beyond transactional asks
• reaching out before a crisis and making clear, focused asks
• leaning into virtual coffee chats in hybrid and remote work
If you're listening on audio, please also subscribe to our YouTube channel!
We publish new episodes every other Wednesday.
Follow us on Instagram @Leadership_Tea for more inspiration and insights.
Season Wrap And The Mentee Role
SPEAKER_02Welcome to the Leadership Tea Podcast, where leadership, culture, and clarity meet conversation. I'm Shelby, joined by my co-host Belinda. Hey, everybody. Hey, and so we are wrapping up this current season of the podcast with something that Belinda and I talk about a lot, which is how do you be a mentee? What does it mean to actually be in that role as a mentee? We talk about everyone should have a mentor, but we never really focus on what it means to be the mentee in that relationship. So that's the topic of today's episode. Well, I'm going to turn it over to Belinda to get her thoughts on what are some of the lessons that you've learned as a mentee?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think, you know, I think we were fortunate, both of us, early in our career, we had the opportunity to receive mentors and be in environments where we needed to network. And I think I spent a lot of time thinking about how not to come across as having like an ego. I would like to think that I came across that way. And seeing some of my counterparts who would start conversations with, this is where I'm going to school. And by the way, my name is such and such. Or let me give you a rundown of my resume. But they didn't really bring much to the table. It seemed like it was off-putting to people. So I think this is a topic that I spent a lot of years thinking
Avoid Clout Chasing In Mentorship
SPEAKER_00about. I think the first thing that really comes to mind for me is that people should not go out there and try to clout chase to just like meet someone and it's clear that like you're thinking about their title. You're thinking about if it aligns with where you see your future. I think it's just important to walk through open doors and to connect with people genuinely who clearly want to help you, right? Because there's doors that will open as a result of that that you're not even aware of, that you don't even know exists. The people who've had the biggest influence in my life were people who were not focused on things that I thought I wanted to study or, you know, drill in on in my career. They are people who just said, hey, let me take it a coffee. And they have continued to be really impactful mentors in my life, you know, 10, 20 years on down the road. When I talk to a lot of folks who are interested in me being their mentor, they will often have this very rigid view of where they think their career is going and why knowing me is going to be something that they can leverage. And that is not, that's not for the win. Like it doesn't make me feel good about where you're going. And it also is a concern for me that you are so locked in on a dream, you might be missing other opportunities as a result. So I just can't emphasize this enough. Just like get to know people. When I go to a new job, I think that knowing the janitor is just as important as knowing the CEO. That part. You know, and I've learned a lot from janitors. Like honestly. Okay. I've learned a lot from the people who don't seem important, are the people who've looked out for me the most. They know what the HR is about to like, you know, release this thing over here, or the IT people, if you go over there and you say this thing, they'll fix your computer. Like the information I really needed to know to move ahead did not come from people with the main titles. Focus on just finding nice people and less on finding people with titles. Often also they're really busy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right? Like you need time, you have questions. You're only going to be able to talk to somebody in the C-suite a couple times a year at best. But you might get to talk to that middle manager who works in a vertical that you're not even in. You might get to talk to them every month.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So clout chasing is something that I would really highlight for people as something that you should be wary of.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
You Always Have Mentor Options
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02And your point on walking through open doors, that really resonates with me. I think one of the things that I see kind of blocking people from having good relationships with mentors is that they feel like my company or my organization paired me with this person. And so now I'm obligated to, you know, have this person be my mentor and that's it. Like I don't have any options. But you always have options. And in fact, sometimes, you know, those pairings are not matches made in heaven. And your your comments made me think about an experience that I had uh where I was paired with a mentor as an entry-level professional. And in my first meetings with this person, and I'll never forget, I remember his name. I remember what he looks like. Like if he were to walk in here right now, I would remember exactly who he is. Um, but we met for coffee one day, and I was giving him a little bit about my background. And I mentioned um the high school that I went to, a private school. And he looked at me and he was like, How does someone like you get into a school like that? And so immediately I was like, okay, this conversation is over. Thank you, but no, thank you. I'm moving on. And I don't even think I reported back to HR. Maybe I did. I don't remember if I said, okay, I don't want to proceed with this mentor or not. But what I did do was just kind of read the room and think about the people who had made presentations or people that I had come across where I felt like this person, you know, maybe I can vibe with them. It seems like we have things in common. They seem approachable. You know, all the things that you just said, they seem nice, they seem kind, they seem reasonable. They don't come across as a jerk. Maybe this is a better person for me to talk to. And so I just want to foot stomp your point on walking through open doors and to remind people that sometimes situational mentorship makes all the difference. You don't have to limit yourself to whoever you've been paired with. You can, you know, just find your person. You always have options. So I just want to double-click on that. And
Build A Real Relationship
SPEAKER_02I think that's a good segue to one of the points that I wanted to make, which is to be in relationship with your mentor. As a mentee, it's important for you to see your mentor as a human being. You know, they may have a family, they may have other things going on in their lives, they have birthdays, they want to hear from you, not just when something is going wrong or just when you need something, but I feel like in my personal experience, the best relationships are the ones where there's some give and take, there's some exchanges that aren't related to transactions, like feedback on your evaluation, or you need a reference. And, you know, all of that is fine. Those are dynamics of a mentoring relationship that that just kind of goes with the territory. But I feel like the really full relationships are those where there's some communication beyond the normal it's evaluation season or I'm applying for a new job. You know, you check in with them on their birthday or special holidays, you send them a Christmas card if you're a Christian or whatever the case may be. But just being in relationship and remembering that they're a human being, like you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I think that links really well to the idea of also you're not just talking to them because of a title or something like that. And also when you wait until you just have a problem or a reason, sometimes they can't solve that for you. Or sometimes the thing that you're bringing to them, they would have had different advice for you had you come earlier. And then just going back to something you said earlier, it made me reflect on also don't let the baggage that they bring to the table impact your view of you, your view of mentor-minte relationships. This goes back to what you said. You're not stuck. You can move somewhere differently if you want. And I just wish that somebody had explicitly told me that. And I also wish somebody had explicitly told me that mentor minte relationships, particularly when they are assigned, right, through programs, really bring up a lot of the hierarchical and cultural issues that exist in the workplace, happen in that relationship.
When Mentorship Gets Messy
SPEAKER_00Right. So you mentioned that person who's like, you know, what how did you go to that high school? Right. But I can remember, especially early in my career, nobody prepared me for the idea of how gender was going to be so wrapped up in my interactions. And I can't even say it's a function of the organization because the story that I'm thinking of right now actually reflects back to me working at a think tank. Um, and so that was before I was in government. But like this mentor who I'd been assigned there just constantly brought up my youth and my gender. And his advice really focused on that all the time, but in ways that were not healthy. And I found it to be very confusing. And it left me feeling like I was doing something wrong. Right. And this culminated, this is like a wild story, but like it culminated with as I was leaving, this person's like, You've done great work. It's really been great mentoring you. Here's my number if you need anything, you know. And so I did. Like six months later, I needed a reference as I was going into government. And so I called. This is like, I don't know why I didn't have an email address for this guy, but whatever. I called the number. I got this is still in the days of voicemail. I got a voicemail, I left a voicemail, and I got a call back from him a few days later, livid, about why I would do that. His wife wanted to know why women were calling him.
SPEAKER_01What? And I'm like, slow your rope.
SPEAKER_00I don't call and say, like, you know, I don't know. I didn't pull like a Marilyn Monroe and sing, like, dear Mr. President, right? Like, I just think, hey, it's I still want it. I've got a job opportunity. Can I get a reference? Like, I mean, you know me. I didn't say anything crazy.
SPEAKER_02Of course not.
SPEAKER_00And I remember just being like, like it was, I was very much gaslit, right?
SPEAKER_02Because you like literally told me to call you. Like, where do we get this number from?
SPEAKER_00And that's an extreme example, but I can just remember many of those particularly assigned mentors bringing the how did you go to grad school there? Or what do you mean you're studying that well? You know, that's a really difficult issue. Like I ask you, or did are that's really hard to do? Are you sure you want to do that? But don't you want to start a family someday? How do you think you're gonna like craziness? And uh thinking like, okay, well, they're telling me I'm supposed to talk to you because you're important and you're you clearly are successful. So am I really supposed to be taking those things into consideration? And so it's like if your gut is telling you no, and we didn't have, I don't I don't feel like gaslighting was a common term when it was early in our career. So, but now we have that language. And so if you're feeling gaslit, then it's time to go broaden your horizons. Right. But not necessarily say poo-poo, because I've seen people go to that extreme, just like I had a bad mentor, so I don't I don't know how to need a mentor. I'm just gonna that's not gonna work. Nope. You can't make it through this life alone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You just can't. You just can't 100%.
SPEAKER_02Um
Professionalism And Not Ghosting
SPEAKER_02I'm thinking about something else that I've seen, complaints that I've gotten from people who want to be a good mentor, but the mentee is not holding up their end of the relationship. And so my other lesson learned for mentees in terms of how to be a good mentee is don't ghost your mentor. No, don't ghost your mentor. There are people who take mentoring very seriously and want to be there for you, but sometimes the mentees won't show up to that Zoom call or they cancel at the last minute, and it's not like a legit reason for them to be canceling at the last minute. It's just like, oh, yeah, I can't make it today. Okay. Well, your mentor set aside this time for you and they want to be there for you, but you're being flighty. What's up with that? Like, don't ghost your mentor. People are busy. And yes, of course, life happens. If you have a legit reason why you can't show up, obviously share that with your mentor. But sometimes people can be a little lax when it comes to taking the relationship seriously. And it just, it just looks poorly on you. It's not professional, it's just not cool. Like, you don't want to be ghosted. You don't want people to leave you hanging. Don't do that to your mentor.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you get to ghost me like once. You know what I'm saying? Like, I I I just feel like also be realistic about I've I've had this happen a couple of times recently. Be realistic about when you can meet. Yeah. Like I guess my schedule's constrained, but if you know that you're in an environment where 10 a.m. on a Wednesday, it's just not possible. You have a boss that's micromanaging you and it's gonna be like, why are you on the phone? Then maybe it's lunchtime.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Maybe it's evenings, maybe it's weekends, but be realistic as well about what, or if you know that there's a big, you know, visit or a big, you know, just event or something coming up. Well, don't ask to talk to me like around the time of the big thing. You might be pulled into something. Exactly. So it's also showing a little bit of discernment and professionalism on your part and the asking, which I guess kind of ties in well to what I was gonna say, which is also you're not
Ask Early And Ask Clearly
SPEAKER_00a bother though.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And there are people who came to me later in my career who said, Why didn't you ever call me? Why didn't you ever? I really wanted to help you, but you never reached out. You never, whatever, whatever. And I didn't because I thought, well, I don't have a problem. Like I'm I'm in my job, job X, mid-level job X. It's awful. I cry every day, I eat a chocolate chip cookie to make it through the afternoons. Like it's bad, but I just figure that's what it is. And I just need to dig deeper. I'm just gonna suffer through it. What did we do? Yeah. And people were like, you should have come to me. We have talked about it. And I'm like, what am I supposed to say? Like, my job sucks, everybody's job sucks. Sucks being mid-level cog in the wheel, number 512. Right.
SPEAKER_02It's just part of life.
SPEAKER_00What I could have done looking back and now seeing people who come to me for these kinds of conversations, I could have just asked for 15 minutes on your calendar and just giving you an update. Hey, I'm in XYZ office right now. It's not horrible, but I'm looking to do XYZ things in the future. I'm planning on blah, blah, blah. What do you think?
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Like that could have been it. Yeah. But I didn't feel like I could do that. And so that's something I regret. And it's something I would offer to our listeners as it's a bother when you come to me and you're just like, hey, okay, well, now I'm like, well, what are we doing? Yeah. Why are we here? What's the point? Hey, here's what I'm doing. Here's what I'm thinking. Um, I'd appreciate your advice. Can I can I bounce this off of you? That's okay. Coming to me when things are real bother, like you haven't spoken to me in six months, and you come to me and say, actually, I'm about to be fired. Can you help me? No, it's too late.
SPEAKER_02Like, what I'm not a miracle worker. Like, I'm tight. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, I'm on a pip. I can you get out of my office? I don't even want to be associated now. Like, what's up? Don't don't do that. There's somewhere between you're not a bother. I'm just checking in, and things are getting more challenging, and I could use your advice that you need to show some judgment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00This isn't school. There's not a syllabus. Now we are using all of the pieces in the toolbox and our judgment to make moves. And the other piece, just really honing down on that lack of clout chasing, every relationship is not about making moves.
SPEAKER_02That part. Say that again.
SPEAKER_00Just make just just you need you need a whole village. Like we talk all the time about building. You need a whole village. And not everybody in the village is a leverage point.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But but everybody brings something valuable.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Right? I've had people who just skipped past me in a networking event because they thought, oh, you're just doing blah blah blah. And they go to somebody with a title, and I'm sitting there going, they're a moron. Also, they're not gonna help you.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say they're not gonna be able to do anything for you. Well, good luck with that. Look, you couldn't talk to both of us. That's fine. Right. But you just you the whole time you're talking to me, you're looking over my shoulder. God, I hate that.
SPEAKER_02I hate it.
SPEAKER_00It's like good luck with that. No, I'm not helping. I'm quiet. Yeah. Yeah. And there's so much I could have offered to you, but you were out here chasing titles or chasing who you thought you could leverage or chasing who can get you to the next thing. That next thing may not be the thing that you should even be doing.
unknownExactly.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_00But what who am I? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, which is why, you know, back to one of the points I made earlier, you have options and you shouldn't limit yourself to only having
Build A Village Of Mentors
SPEAKER_02one mentor. You can have different people as part of your village, as you were saying, that serve different purposes. You just need people. You need a community. You need folks that you can talk to. I have a mentor who's more spiritual and you know, we can dive into faith-based things, and that's great. I have someone else who's like, okay, I just want to help you reach that next thing. And so I talk to them more about professional, career-related things. And then I have people that I can talk to about anything, like literally anything. And those are great mentors as well. So just remember, as we always say, community is clutch. Your mentors don't have to fit one specific box. You don't have to have just one mentor for everything because that's kind of how life works.
SPEAKER_00And you have to have resilience. Like these relationships go up and down with anything else.
SPEAKER_02100%.
SPEAKER_00And so you just can't have extreme reactions to them, right? You got to keep learning, we have to keep exploring.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That part.
SPEAKER_00So with that said, I think what I would offer as maybe a last piece of advice to our listeners is don't put yourself in
Hybrid Networking And Final Takeaways
SPEAKER_00your own little world thinking about all of this. If you're not sure how to be a great mentee, one get some advice from your current mentors, also talk to your peers. Like what's working for other people? We have a mutual friend that people call the mayor who knows everybody. You know who you are. Everybody's got that friend. So go to that friend. Like, what are you doing? How are you? But don't stay isolated. And I think lastly, I would say when you're working in an environment that's largely hybrid or online or remote, you really have to lean into this extra. You have to have these virtual coffee chats. Yeah. And you have to be even more honest with people about why. Like, hey, I just would love to pick your brain a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's harder, but you need to do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Just make the effort.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So, in sum, we want people to remember our key points from this chat. What would we say?
SPEAKER_00Don't clout chase. Don't let your anxieties or your lack of organization or whatever's happening in your life cause you to be unprofessional and ghost. Right? Right. And don't be too timid. Be in relationship. Amen. I like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
YouTube Ask And Listener Prompts
SPEAKER_00So, with that said, we appreciate you spending time with us today and spending time with us this whole season. If you're listening on audio, we would really appreciate it if you could come over to YouTube. And first of all, just come and see us. We'd love to say hi. Hi. But also, we really appreciate it if you would subscribe to our YouTube channel and engage with our content. Like, let us know in the comments what your MNT experiences have been like and the kinds of questions that you still have. And we look forward to continuing to share our insights and the insights of our guest with you and the next season of the Leadership Tea Podcast, where we are sipping wisdom and stirring success.
